50plo5 - are we supposed to play this hand preflop?

In the SB it sure looks like a fold to me.

Even with btn 3bet% 20+?

CO could 4bet. But equities do run close in plo5. And it is five-handed. Be nice if that 2h was an AKQ.

This is a much weaker hand than it looks.

Sorry, I don’t want to hijack the thread, but this hand seems like a good spot to ask something more general about preflop strategy in PLO5.

On CoinPoker and some similar sites I often see players with VPIP/PFR stats like 40/33, while I’m much closer to Hero here, something like 22/17. What is going on there? Is the much looser style just spewy, or does it actually have better winrate potential at these stakes if played well postflop?

Sometimes I get a bit nervous that I might be playing too tight, especially when I see so many players opening and 3-betting much wider.

OP, if you don’t mind sharing: how are you performing with this kind of opening range at these limits? Do you feel this "by the book" 22/17 is about right for these games, or do you also doubt in it durring the games?

Um...I only occasionally play plo5. I think I'm a loser at plo5 so far. I'm learning/punting at the same time. lol
Sometimes I 3bet oop w/random hands that look good but actually bad. I become an aggrofish that I used to stack all the time.

Plo4 I'm mainly playing on club wpt gold, been on a roller coaster ride there, slight winner.
Live has been a mix, was crushing at a local room with high rake where there are loadsa of aggro fishes and whales as a beginner starting out. Grinded over 100/hr as a nit.

Games died down, went to real casino w/timed rake, the 2/2 w/no bring in, it is atrocious there loadsa regs, slightly losing and punting frequently.
5/5/10 so far has been helding grounds super small sample and it's way over my bankroll.

Ok that was way off topic.
As for pf ranges, imho tight is right. Because you hit the nuts or nut draws often w/tighter ranges. The looser you're preflop, you'll find yourself in painful situations postflop often having 2nd nuts/drawing to 2nd nuts type hands. If you're playing vs whales/fit or fold nit it might not matter too much. And postflop is a different skill.
Online and live are 2 separate games for me.
I'm only playing preflop and flop mostly in live games. Online I have to play all 4 streets.
If you're good at postflop then widening your preflop ranges can be good to your winrate.

So tighter ranges preflop lead to easier decisions postflop. If you widen your preflop ranges, you have to learn how to fold 2nd nuts very often otherwise you'll be punting left and right.

22/17 is a little tight. I'm around 31/22, but that's a mix of 5/6 max and PLO6. I do think you can be a bit laggier given the close equities, but I don't think that a VPIP over 40% is profitable, no matter how well you play post-flop. I suspect that many of these looser players are just running hot. Variance is huge, and it's possible to run 10BB/100 over your true win rate for tens or even hundreds of thousands of hands and think that you're playing correctly. There's a guy on another site with 80/36 stats. Insane, right? And yet he was a massive winner for thousands of hands. Finally, after over 5,000 hands, he's barely dipped in the negative. I have no doubt that he's really a -50BB/100 player, at best, but in my database, he's a breakeven player.

Thanks to both of you for sharing your thoughts and experience.

I have one more related question, especially about how you approach limpers in these games. How do you usually deal with one or more limpers when you are on the BTN?

In particular, I’m wondering whether it ever makes sense to overlimp the button with hands that have some playability but not very high nut potential. Or would you generally prefer either isolating or folding, even in position?

Also, what would be the best way to transition from something like 22/17 to around 30/22? I assume most of the extra VPIP should come from playing looser on the BTN and maybe CO, rather than just opening up everywhere.

What types of hands would you generally start adding in that case? I understand that postflop skill is a prerequisite for playing wider ranges profitably, which is exactly why I’m thinking it probably makes more sense to add hands mainly in position.

Any general guidance on spots where I can safely start being a bit looser would be much appreciated.

Further OT, I don’t want to dig for it, but iirc in one of the SSNLHE book threads someone posted that over six million nlhe hands there’s a 16% chance your results could be off by an SD.