WSOP Circuit Hand ($400 Limit O/8)
150 entrants, about 45 left or so. We've just combined into 5 tables and I have zero reads here other than that the button is Kessler, so he's probably going to fold pre. This is Level 13, blinds are 2k/4k, limits are 4k/8k. I've nursed a small stack all the way here and have 37k.
I'm in the cutoff with KKT9, one suit and open raise.
Folded to the BB who 3 bets and I call. BB is a 30s or 40s white guy. I haven't seen him play a hand, but I've been at the table less than 1 orbit at this point.
Flop is 973 rainbow, I don't have a backdoor flush draw. BB bets, I call.
Turn is a J, completing the rainbow. BB Bets, I call.
River is a 4. BB Bets, I call.
20 Replies
While I generally approve of the open, at this stack depth limp is a good option. Payout ladder might influence my decision.
On river, Hero can think about a tight fold. Not because call is bad in theory, but because population is probably too tight in this spot. Hero is mostly hoping villain has a2j or a2qq, and is getting smoked by a lot of other stuff.
I don't play limit, but seems like a fold pre to me. KK is weak, side cards are utter trash, only one suit.
So you put 32K in with no low draw and KK for high that did not improve?
Did they have AA2x ? How did you do in tournament?
Fold pre, fold flop, they always have AA
Indeed.
I can't count how many folds I made pre of marginal hands that allowed me to stay in it and I just never got away from this one when I think I should have at some point, probably on the flop and definitely on the turn.
You really would fold pre the first time?
Have you ever ran any preflop sims? At least in PL/NL KKxx is quite bad and it's folded nearly always CO. I guess it should be a bit better in limit, but still.
In a normal cash game at limit or pot limit, I'm raising this hand every time if it's folded to me in the CO without even a second thought.
Really easy hand to play post flop in PL most of the time.
In limit, I'm thinking the chance of stealing the blinds (even higher in this situation vs a cash game) plus my equity makes it a raise, but I posted it for feedback and I certainly think folding is a more viable option than I did in the moment.
Between the PLO the day before and this one, I did manage to play 29 levels for one cash of $1055. About as bad a result as possible.
Have you ever ran any preflop sims? At least in PL/NL KKxx is quite bad and it's folded nearly always CO. I guess it should be a bit better in limit, but still.
I haven't ran any sims but in my experience in live LO8 cash and tourneys, hands like KK23/KK56 even double suited rarely if ever win either side by the river, flopping a full house and scooping seems to be one of the few times I remember it holding. I have also started folding this type of hand much more frequently even in LO-Hi
In a normal cash game at limit or pot limit, I'm raising this hand every time if it's folded to me in the CO without even a second thought. Really easy hand to play post flop in PL most of the time.
Ok, but do you know that you make money with the hand? Solver can't make money with it (against itself). In general I think overplaying KK is a very common mistake. Maybe you can get away with it in more passive games, I'm not sure.
Anyway, I'd always fold this hand in CO without even a second of thought (in PL). Under normal conditions I'd fold this exact hand on the BTN, too, believe it or not.
Ok, but do you know that you make money with the hand? Solver can't make money with it (against itself). In general I think overplaying KK is a very common mistake. Maybe you can get away with it in more passive games, I'm not sure.
Anyway, I'd always fold this hand in CO without even a second of thought (in PL). Under normal conditions I'd fold this exact hand on the BTN, too, believe it or not.
interesting to me, for sure. I definitely play a lot looser than I once did and it's hands like these that give me pause. In tournaments, I try to stay out of marginal situations and look for better spots and I think that's what bothered me the most about this hand. Thanks for the thoughts.
I haven't ran any sims but in my experience in live LO8 cash and tourneys, hands like KK23/KK56 even double suited rarely if ever win either side by the river, flopping a full house and scooping seems to be one of the few times I remember it holding. I have also started folding this type of hand much more frequently even in LO-Hi
KK23 is a really strong hand short handed. I can't imagine anyone would recommend folding that in a situation like mine.
For the record, according to the solver KK32ds is roughly as strong as A842 suited to the A, or AAKJ suited to the A. These hands are good, but not great.
https://monkerware.com/solver.html Assuming you are serious.
https://monkerware.com/solver.html Assuming you are serious.
yes, thanks ... I will have to try the free version for awhile to see if I want the 499 EUR version
Learning with the help of a solver takes a lot of work. But if you are willing to put in the hours, it's easily worth the price.
I think PF is fine (if marginal) but you should fold the flop. You virtually never scoop and have terrible RIO on this particular texture.
