Looking for feedback
I’m trying to build up my confidence to play regularly on .10/.25 Big O on Stars. I find it can be an aggressive game where players overplay the nut low or AA type hands. I think it could be a profitable game. I frequently see players win with weak hands like two pair or non nut flushes/straights, but I always seem to be up against the nuts ! I am pretty reluctant to build up a pot because mistakes can be costly.
I am looking for feedback on how I played this hand. I think it was alright, but I wonder if I am leaving too much money behind.
Villain is a reg, who seems to almost always show down the nut low. I feel he overplays them as demonstrated in this hand.
5 Card Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD)
BB: VillainWhoFolds ($32.66 in chips)
UTG : Seat 3: Hero ($38.17 in chips)
CO: Villain ($25 in chips)
Dealt to Hero [Ac 8c 3h 5s 7d]
Hero: raises $0.25 to $0.50
Villain: calls $0.50
VillainWhoFolds: calls $0.25
*** FLOP *** [2d 5d 8d]
VillainWhoFolds: checks
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $1.53
VillainWhoFolds: folds
Hero: calls $1.53
Even though I have the nut low and top two pair, the flush worries me a bit. There are also a lot of straight draws, so I am going for pot control here. As I stated above, after he bets, I can quite reliably put Villain on the nut lo as well.
*** TURN *** [2d 5d 8d] [Tc]
Hero: checks
Villain: bets $4.46
Hero: calls $4.46
Since Villain bet the flop, I continue trying to keep the pot as low as possible.
*** RIVER *** [2d 5d 8d Tc] [Qs]
Hero: checks
Villain: checks
In hindsight I could have bet here, but I feared a raise.
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [Ac 8c 3h 5s 7d] (HI: two pair, Eights and Fives; LO: 8,5,3,2,A)
Villain: shows [Kc 7h 9c 3c As] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 8,5,3,2,A)
I was a bit surprised (but not really) that he had a naked lo.
So feedback by better players is welcome.
8 Replies
Looks fine. I don’t see why you think you should have bet river.
It's 6-handed, right? Well, first of all, I'd recommend you to just play pot with a tight range from early position. Small raise doesn't let you win the pot uncontested and you'll end up in a lot of pots OOP, with the strongest range in an unbuilt pot. Most of the range that you should be opening early is doing great in HU pots.
I think checking the flop is good, but not sure if your reason for doing it is accurate. You can't really "pot control" OOP at this depth. Nearly all the money is going in against a pot-pot-pot line. So it's more of you letting a blank A start bluffing and making sure that if the flop is checked you get two streets of value.
Flop check-call is good, but I think you should check-jam turn especially since people are betting hands they shouldn't. Yes he sometimes has A3+flush but it's not like you gain much by check-calling down. You allow him to cback hands on the river. It doesn't make sense IMO to check-call twice and then start considering betting a blank river.
edit: it might be very difficult to be a winning player in a game like that. The rake is just through the roof and the edges are small, unless someone is just flat out donating by playing 50% of the hands or something.
Thanks for taking the time to look at my question.
OmahaDonk, wrt not betting the river, I guess I am influenced by the results.
amok, I have been wondering about this - I have recently read the Greg Vail series - he advocates "pulling" with strong hand to encourage calls - I have learned a lot from his books, but I have been wondering how to apply his teaching to 6-max though. I agree that when a player pots it there is little you can do, other than fold, to avoid allin by the river. There are a couple of regs in these games who 3 bet excessively - which really puts pressure on you OOP - if you start with pot sized bet and are 3bet, the pot is already bloated and the 3better can bet if he hits - check if he misses - I am formulating a question about this for another post.
regarding this particular villain - maybe I am narrowing his range too much - but I am pretty sure that he is likely betting the pot with the nut lo as well - so then it is a question of who's hi is bigger. Of course he could have wrap, top set or flush also - in which case we split.
regarding your advise about playing this game - I feel forced to play this this game, if I want to play Big-O online. I would definately not play it if there were other options - any suggestions ?
There are a couple of regs in these games who 3 bet excessively - which really puts pressure on you OOP - if you start with pot sized bet and are 3bet, the pot is already bloated and the 3better can bet if he hits - check if he misses - I am formulating a question about this for another post.
In general, most of the 3-betting should be done from the blinds (i.e. OOP) 100bb deep. It's mainly because lowering the SPR makes things easier for OOP. But ok, let's continue about it in the next thread.
regarding this particular villain - maybe I am narrowing his range too much - but I am pretty sure that he is likely betting the pot with the nut lo as well - so then it is a question of who's hi is bigger. Of course he could have wrap, top set or flush also - in which case we split.
Yeah. It's not that easy to have two pair beat with three cards though. Ad and another d (i.e. nut-nut) is the most concerning hand, but you aren't even drawing dead then.
regarding your advise about playing this game - I feel forced to play this this game, if I want to play Big-O online. I would definately not play it if there were other options - any suggestions ?
I think you can get a bigger advantage in a 4-card game. Also the bigger you play the smaller the rake is. Of course, the opposition is also mostly stronger.
Does anybody think there is any merit to folding UTG or is that to nitty?
Also, how high of stakes do they play big O/ plo8 on pokerstars? Is there anything above 1/2?
I would not open fold it 6-handed. Unlikely even with more players. It's a good A3 that can call a 3bet.
Bigger games than that can run randomly.
Thanks again for everyone's feedback.
i would download propokertools odds oracle and run some simulations on certain boards like monotone boards, paired boards, ace hi boards and run downs.
Then start running sims with different hands to see how many times they win the hi/lo and scoop.
Also dont forget to take into account blockers when putting your opponents on certain ranges. Blockers can be very helpful, especially on monotone boards like the hand above. Or on paired boards and when straights are on the board.
As for the aggression factor,
Usually at these small stakes, I just try and combat aggression by being patient with good hands that have scooping potential and if i believe i have at least 50-60% equity by the turn i dont mind getting it all in. Especially if the player is not a quitter and will stick around. Then it gets fun seeing stacks fly and move.
I usually take notes on players so I only do this with people that wont rage quit. With some players you simply cant allow them to push you around with Any A2xxx combo because you become super exploitable. I like to punish these types of players when I have backup wheel cards like AKT32 on a board of K87-5-A. These hands are the most fun because by the time half their stack is in the pot and an Ace or 2 hit the board you can quarter them 😃
Quartering isnt super common but it happens enough to start taking notes on who overplays any A2xxx holding or any bad low hand (micro players will play a lot of bad lows just to try and get back any money they already put in the pot) I have notes on a lot of players that play hands like 26789 or AJ74