Raising the River BVB

Looks like Saulo is doubling down and making a fool out of himself.

Agreed, it's ego nonsense.

Sigh

Last bit seems pretty dumb, I could say "the amount of EV a fish leaks to another is minimal" obviously the average edge between 2 regs is 0bb/100 - rake.

Seems like he's getting the assumption from hands his students played against a GTO bot. So I guess either Saulo is right or 20knl regs are significantly better than GTO?

Linus knows stats better than Saulo, Linus was already the best in the world when Saulo couldn't beat 10nl.

First off, Linus is going to have insane SB limping strategies A good 500nl reg is not going to know how to combat that. What happens when Stefan starts using 4x/5x/6x open sizing's? Are they going to know SB/BB 3bet ranges?

They probably won't even know how to play preflop, let alone postflop. There's no minimal edge. They will already know the common counters to lines.

He's basically saying someone a bit better than me (I have good 200nl results) could hold their own vs Linus/Stefan.

These are my 200nl results (small sample I know). I know for a fact I would get absolutely destroyed by Linus/Stefan 3 handed I would probably be -10bb/100.

His whole point is absurd. Also there is no "deep understanding of theory" 500nl regs. If you play 500nl, you aren't that good by definition (relative to world class players).

Interesting discussion.

Oh and for results, I made villain fold a 9.

Linus, get ready, bitch.

To me it seems like there’s an endless pit of edge to be mined given the conflicts caused between the friction (illusion?) of perfection and the hard limit of human cognition/psychology. So it doesn’t surprise me the top dogs can rinse even the well studied.

Anyone following what’s happened in Tetris world this week?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-cana...

Summary:

The ‘final’ level of Tetris was thought for decades to be level 29, where you can’t even physically move the pieces quickly enough anymore to place. GAME OVER

Next some clever sod figures out how to double tap/vibrate the gamepad for double speed (‘hyper-tapping’). So they got to increasingly higher levels using that. And then another kid invents a new technique calling ‘rolling’ which gets them even further up to about level 95 in 2022.

Eventually the colour pallet in the software drains out until you can’t even see the pieces anymore. This was the next ‘limit’ and nobody could beat that. GAME OVER

Then someone uses AI to figure out the optimal play for every single piece that falls and winds the software to its fullest conclusion, discovering that if you go far enough the game will finally glitch out and reach the true kill screen around the 230 mark.. So then they literally back engineer the entire code and figure out exactly where these crash spots were and that the earliest point in the game where it could possibly trigger: level 155.

So this kid got to level 155 recently on twitch, but he missed the trigger for the glitch. He kept going though and eventually hit one at level 157. The first time anyone had truly ‘beaten’ Tetris.

GAME OVER?

Not yet. The next frontier is figuring out how to get past these various crashes to see how far you can go without triggering any of the kill screens. The holy grail being level 255, where the colour is so washed out it’s pure red.

There seems to be tons of stories like this in the gaming world. Mindblowing speedruns and hacks that surprise even the devs. As long as there is a) interest in a game and b) edge to be gained, it shalt be mined ad infinitum until the heat death of the universe Amen.

Alvin made a good point the other day about how all the viral punt hands doing the rounds are actually really good for regs because they emphasise a more higher risk/reward play style, and that ultimately lures fish into making wilder plays.

And I suppose you could say the same thing for MDA. Anyone could read some random 2+2 shove hh and try and incorporate it into their next session but unless you have the fundamental understanding of every variable that goes into making that play -including the psychological framework to handle defeat/looking dumb when it fails- you’re just liquifying EV.

Speedrunning and the thing with tetris is always awesome. I love watching those videos.

Seems to me like Saulo has this weird idea that everyone at higher stakes also plays this pseudo-GTO+MDA sort of style that a lot of lower stakes players adopt. He would probably be correct if that were the case. But like anyone who has seen some Stefan HHs should be able to tell that he's doing a lot crazy **** that most people outside of that level are gonna be clueless about

Definitely nothing wrong with defending your ideas strongly, but I think there is something wrong with not being able to admit that you might not be entirely correct about something. That's a bad look for anyone

I read this post last night, and magically a random news article showed up this morning on my facebook feed about a kid who beat Tetris.

Newguy inspired this one

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 2(BB)
HERO ($465.12) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 36.8% | Flop Agg: 42% | Turn Agg: 33.8% | River Agg: 36.9% | 3Bet: 11.6% | 4Bet: 14.2% | Cold Call: 9.2% | Hands: 304672]
CO ($617.37) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
BTN ($198) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 1]
SB ($2278.52) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 100% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 0% | Turn Agg: 0% | River Agg: 100% | 3Bet: 0% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]

Dealt to Hero: 9♠ 8♥

CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Raises To $5, HERO Calls $3

Hero SPR on Flop: [46.01 effective]
Flop ($10): T♥ K♣ 2♣
SB Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($10): T♥ K♣ 2♣ 7♥
SB Checks, HERO Checks

River ($10): T♥ K♣ 2♣ 7♥ 3♥
SB Bets $7 (Rem. Stack: $2266.52), HERO Raises To $30.50 (Rem. Stack: $429.62), SB Folds