88 as an overpair in a 3b pot oop
Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Pokeit
UTG: $3.04 (152 bb)
MP (Hero): $1.98 (99 bb)
CO: $3.65 (183 bb)
BU: $1.60 (80 bb)
SB: $3.71 (186 bb)
BB: $1.97 (99 bb)
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP with 8♠ 8♦
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.05, CO 3-bets to $0.15, 3 players fold, Hero calls $0.10
Flop: ($0.33) 4♥ 6♠ 2♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.20
Turn: ($0.93) 7♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.46, CO calls $0.46
River: ($1.85) 2♥ (2 players)
Hero?
Villain is a relatively normal player w 19 vpip, 16 pfr, 9.6 3b over my sample of ~250 hands. My read is that hes pretty straightforward.
Pre i figured i have enough depth to setmine (might be wrong).
On the flop i figured i have the nut advantage, plus a weak overpair in desperate need of protection, so i decided to make a play. Not sure if i should have, also not sure about the sizing.
Picked up a little equity on the turn and 88 is still an overpair. Also thought that villain could realistically float with overcards or flush draws, so i decided to barrel.
On the river im in a tough spot - at this point the villain gotta have something (most likely an overpair or a flush draw), and most of that beats me (besides flush draws that missed). I could try and rep a boat/quads, which i dont think villain can have here, but with the flush draw missing i feel like hes gonna have a hard time folding a big overpair, and im not getting any more value from a missed draw anyways. If i check or bet small, i show weakness and give him an opportunity to get me off my equity with a missed draw, and if it goes xx idk if im ever winning. With my boats/quads i would probably shove here.
So, what do i do on the river? Overall, i think i overplayed this hand pretty hard, what do you guys think?
7 Replies
Key thing to remember is that when they 3bet and you x/r the flop you're going in against all the overpairs in their range. I think you can raise the flop small like you did. Villain's bet sizing looks like they might be range betting this or close, which they shouldn't. So by raising you're putting all of their overcards into a tough spot. You get some thin value from A-highs and get to protect your hand.
OTT you do have to start taking into consideration that all of their overpairs are still in range, and your raise already eliminated a lot of villain's overcards. So you can't keep betting. It's a pretty easy check at this point.
As played, OTR you have no other choice but to check. If they bet I probably fold.
Villain is a relatively normal player w 19 vpip, 16 pfr, 9.6 3b over my sample of ~250 hands. My read is that hes pretty straightforward.
Pre i figured i have enough depth to setmine (might be wrong).
I believe preflop this hand is mostly a fold, sometimes a call and rarely a 4bet. When we call we do not rely only on hitting a set to scoop the pot, we will also sometimes win unimproved at showdown versus broadways, suited aces etc. But out of position realizing our equity will be hard (I believe in theory there are many runouts where villain barrels and we need to do an uncomfortable calldown), hence why we mostly fold.
On the flop I assume the small x/r is fine to protect our hand vs things like KdQd, QdJd that might go for an incorrect range cbet, but just x/c is more "standard" I believe.
On the turn you are turning your hand into a bluff. Villain is not capped, they won't fold a flush draw anyway...
A nice trick for those situation is to call flop and then donk turn 1/3 pot when it's good for your range (basically a low card). The solver does that all the time and I used it with some success in last days, people just don't know how to play against it.
€0.10 NL FAST (6 max)
BTN: 126 BB
SB: 85.9 BB
BB: 74 BB
UTG: 145.2 BB
Hero (MP): 101.5 BB
CO: 154.6 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 8♣ 8♥
fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6.5 BB
Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 2♣ T♠ T♥
Hero checks, CO bets 7.4 BB, Hero calls 7.4 BB
Turn: (34.3 BB, 2 players) 5♦
Hero bets 10.8 BB, CO calls 10.8 BB
River: (55.9 BB, 2 players) 4♦
Hero checks, CO checks
Hero shows 8♣ 8♥ (Two Pair, Tens and Eights)
CO mucks K♥ A♥ (One Pair, Tens)
Hero wins 53.1 BB
€0.10 NL FAST (6 max)
BTN: 116 BB
SB: 103.8 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 191.8 BB
Hero (MP): 104.8 BB
CO: 131.6 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 5♦ 5♠
fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 5.5 BB
Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) 4♥ 8♠ 8♦
Hero checks, BTN bets 11 BB, Hero calls 11 BB
Turn: (39.5 BB, 2 players) 3♣
Hero bets 10.4 BB, fold
Hero wins 37.5 BB
See: in your exact hand the solver never raises flop with 8s, and donks its entire range on the turn 😀
And you are allowed to donk 1/3pot because you have a huge equity advantage, because IP has so many overcards type of hands
Key thing to remember is that when they 3bet and you x/r the flop you're going in against all the overpairs in their range. I think you can raise the flop small like you did. Villain's bet sizing looks like they might be range betting this or close, which they shouldn't. So by raising you're putting all of their overcards into a tough spot. You get some thin value from A-highs and get to protect your hand.
OTT you do have to start taking into consideration that all of their overpairs are still in
I thought most people would float with stuff like AK, AQ, AJ, maybe KQ, and i targeted those with my double barrel. Im not sure how to play turn and river if i check the turn. Do i xc, xf?
A nice trick for those situation is to call flop and then donk turn 1/3 pot when it's good for your range (basically a low card). The solver does that all the time and I used it with some success in last days, people just don't know how to play against it.
This is pretty interesting, but i have no idea how to play that line unless they immediately fold. I also wouldnt probably take that small donk line w my value, and would rather either xr flop or turn - which might be a mistake since i never studied the spot (i dont really have access to solvers besides what GTOW offers for free). Do i check the river as in your first example? What if they bet? What i gather from this is that i probably dont have enough equity to go on the aggressive with two cards to come, but i do on the turn. Can i maybe xr the turn in this spot? If it goes x, x im probably in good shape. If they call though, im in a pretty tough spot on the river either way.
Maybe i should just fold pre and not put myself in tough spots haha
Thanks everyone for the help.
Results:
Spoiler
I check with the intention of giving up. To my surprise, villain checks back and has AcKs and i win.
Low call % pre. You could just fold and be fine.
I wouldn't x/r. This combo in a very low EV spot and just wants to get to the river. Would probably x/c twice for smaller sizings then fold.
I like the donking turn on low cards idea though. yoink
