Triple barrel bluff in a 4b pot bvb?
Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 4 players
Hand delivered by Pokeit
UTG: $3.08 (154 bb)
BU: $1.05 (53 bb)
SB (Hero): $3.06 (153 bb)
BB: $2.00 (100 bb)
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is SB with 5♣ K♣
2 players fold, Hero raises to 3bb, BB 3-bets to 9bb, Hero 4-bets to 24bb, BB calls 15bb
Flop: (48bb) 4♣ J♣ 6♦ (2 players)
Hero bets 12bb, BB calls 12bb
Turn: (72bb) Q♠ (2 players)
Hero bets 18bb, BB calls 18bb
River: (108bb) J♠ (2 players)
Hero?
Villain is a weird (fishy?) guy with 29/17/14 over about 100 hands. Only seen him being four bet once, by me, and folded to my triple barrel jam on the river in the same b25-b25-jam line on a similar board.
Pre i think i have an ok bluff hand, and he has a pretty high 3b range, which should make it hard to defend vs 4b. Theoretically it should be winning to 4b a wider polarized range vs that, but not sure it is in real life against someone who i think is fishy and might just not want to fold. Looking (only now) at his fcb on flop turn and river stats, which are all in the vicinity of 30 (albeit over a small sample), this seems to be the case. Thread closed and lesson learned, i guess. Just kidding, i never learn and im also interested in opinions on turn and river (maybe disregarding that the opponent is a station).
Flop is pretty standard i think to b25 with my whole range.
Not sure on the turn if i should check or maybe bet larger. We have some chips behind, but i can get it in on the river either way. I also have a non-nut fd and dont think i can call a bet if i check, so i think my options are either bet or give up right now.
On the river, i heavily block villain's air like missed flush/straight draws and not much value (pretty much only KcQc assuming normal ranges). The villain's range should be pretty condensed after my 4b and two barrels (even with his low fcb, which i didnt pay much attention at the time, it still applies). If i check and it goes x x, i lose, and if i check and he bets i dont think i can call. Do i just give up here?
5 Replies
Ya I'd give up as played. Players at 2NL would show up with a hand here more often than not. I also wouldn't 4 bet at this level, based on population tendencies.
Don’t 4bet bluff fish as they way overcall preflop.
29/17/14 probably isn't maniacal preflop - The low 17% PFR stat converges earlier than the 3bet stat and is more relevant to his overall game. He more likely has a linear 3bet range at these stakes and has just ran well for the 100 hand sample.
Maybe on the river 99 folds but you have negative blockers to the FD's and if he is fishy he can have the offsuit AJo/KJo combos. KQ/AQ also will call flop here. I would give up.
I might not have had 100 hands on the villain at that point, probably more like 20-50. Yeah dont 4b bluff people who dont fold (aka pay attention to current and future fold equity).
I did indeed give up (i checked and he jammed, i folded).
3b stat on that sample is absolutely irrelevant. Just keep a linear range vs 3bets from recs OOP, no need to use these kind of hands.
Flop: it's not a board to range bet in BvB 4bet pot. It's actually bet less than 50% freq. and the reason is when our 4b range is polar we don't have many suited cards, while IP always does, so FD boards become quite bad for us. Also we have no connection to the 4 and 6 and our equity realization is bad OOP. This doesn't apply vs recs though, I'd just bet "my hand" and this one has a FD, an over, a BDSD and no showdown so I'd pure bet it. Turn seems fine too. OTR it seems terrible to bluff this when everything misses, you block a lot of folds with Kc but also hands like 45/56 that they might have A5cc etc., you don't even block a suited Jx and you have many better hands to fire with.
And exploitatively I don't think it will be a super overfolded spot either as most people expect you not to continue with many Jx OTT and every AK/AT which you have suited and offsuit miss
