[MIXED VARIANT] Badugi hi/lo (triple draw game, highest low card and lowest high card)

[MIXED VARIANT] Badugi hi/lo (triple draw game, highest low card and lowest high card)

It took some time to understand the two different "badugi high" games in the mix, and this one has yet to grow on me. I don't love split pot games where it's hard to imagine a scooping hand, and the way of reading the high hand feels like Calvinball.

Summary

4-card triple draw; split between best (lowest) standard badugi hand and "highest" badugi hand (but not really as we understand high hands on every other form of poker).

The "high" rank badugi (4 unique suits and ranks) is determined by its lowest card, then second lowest and so forth. E.g. KJ95 badugi is beaten for both low and "high" by T876 badugi (678T is better than 59JK).

Aces are effectively invisible except to establish the fourth suit of a badugi; you can treat them as high in your high badugis and low in your low ones.

Presumably any badugi still beats all tris, any tri beats all 2-cards, etc. though this didn't really come up.


Key theoretical insight

Compact, middle card badugis are great scooping hands HU but get riskier as more players get to showdown.


Discussion

In split pot games we try to scoop, so that we make money by freerolling our friends playing for only half, but that seems really damn hard in this game. There are three practical ways I can find to scoop:

  • Make an uncalled bet or raise
  • Complete the only badugi.
  • Make a compact badugi with a high floor and low ceiling, and hope the other badugis going for one half are made with an outlier, such as the 5 in KJ95.

Note that all three get MUCH harder if 4 or 5 folks see the first draw, which iirc happened most of the time at Resorts World, at least later in the day. Moreover a key feature of standard badugi is that when everyone misses, the best draw (tri aka 3-card) wins. That's still true but seems of practical value only if you're aiming for one side or the other.

Thus, it feels like 9876 dugi is the nuts HU – it might scoop another badugi with one outlier card, whereas 432A or JQKA can each scoop only in edge cases involving the ace, if I'm understanding the rules:

  • KQJA > KQJx for low and JQKA > xQKA for high.
  • 432A > x432 for low and A234 > 234x for high.

At any rate if you make a middle dugi and your opponent is going high or low, you'll always get at least half, and might get it all if they complete with a brick for their direction (or don't complete at all).

But multiway it seems like middle badugis run a risk of second-second. Badugis are still hard to complete, and good badugis (in either direction) moreso, so perhaps I'm overthinking this risk. If the first draw goes 1:1:1 and you spike your 9876 you're probably still a favorite to get at least half and might scoop. But obviously if you have 876 tri, the final draw goes 1:1:1, and everyone misses, you're not going have much chance with your middle tri. It's nothing at all like 32A tri in standard badugi or QKA if you played straight badugi high.

Considering all that, when it's routinely 4 or more to the first draw, I think you have to basically aim for half and place your freeroll hopes on everyone else bricking. (Maybe it's like a dominant high hand in stud 8 praying no one makes low.) In that Resorts World game it sure seems like you'd better go in expecting multiway pots unless you're opening the cutoff or button.

I'm eager to hear from those who've thought more about this game.

17 June 2023 at 06:44 PM
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Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

I'll be there this weekend. I have no idea if they still play this silly game but I can't stop thinking about it. Since it's my unbeatable nut low favorite game in this mix, I'm a bit obsessed with conquering it. However last year this mix played loose enough that for this particular variant, I'm probably better off trying to win half a big pot with a very high or very low badugi. It seems like jamming 9764b is often going to get you second-second in a loose game.


by AKQJ10 k

I'll be there this weekend. I have no idea if they still play this silly game but I can't stop thinking about it. Since it's my unbeatable nut low favorite game in this mix, I'm a bit obsessed with conquering it. However last year this mix played loose enough that for this particular variant, I'm probably better off trying to win half a big pot with a very high or very low badugi. It seems like jamming 9764b is often going to get you second-second in a loose game.

It's a love it or hate it game for sure. I am in the love it group.

It makes for a lot of interesting strategy as to how many opponents you want, and when you are in second/second and need to get away from the hand.

It does play looser than regular badugi, though it's not clear that it should.

Even when many people see the first draw, 3 badugis are relatively uncommon, so playing the connected middle stuff is fine. You might even scoop against the poorer players who are drawing to a big spread like J73 or so.

As for nut low games in the mix, Pineapple 8 is my undisputed champion. At least it plays quickly, and sometimes I'll walk during that round.


Back to the strategy question. 986 is a great open from the cutoff. Even if it goes 4 handed you are unlikely to see 3 badugis, and mostly you will be playing vs 1 or 2 opponents.

Unlike regular Badugi, having a good 3 card like this will not do well if 3 people make it to showdown unimproved. That's just the nature of the game; As you know regular Badugi emphasizes strong 3 card hands, this game just doesn't . You need to make a dugi, or just hope to somehow get 1/2 if 3 people see the river unimproved. This hand will still play very well as a 3 card if you can get it heads up, so I'd tend to keep betting here until someone is pat (or leads into you).

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