The DooDooPoker Experience
It's long past due I made one of these things but I move at a snails pace so that's pretty typical for me. I need some a
Mine is 29% call with 1.79 RCE. Maybe the better question is what's the fold to river bet supposed to be.
What's your Call river bet % over your entire hand sample? I think 35% at GTO is not right.
It is abysmally low at around 18% over the 70k hands I played for my blog going from 5NL-50NL. This month I worked on improving it (and I thought I did), got it up to around 26% but only over 10k hands. Sample sizes too small and I just need to put in the volume, but I have been a lot more conscientious of bluff catch spots where I think population could be attacking my X ranges, as before I'd often just opt to fold. I'm playing micros so I can probably get away with overfolding
I'm just going to put this up here, maybe it helps maybe it doesn't. GTO %s.
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I asked the question in the theory section of my discord so hopefully we get an answer.
DooDoo, are those the numbers your CFP recommends you shoot for?
My CFP is an absentee Landlord that only checks in when rent is due lol.
These numbers were pulled from Saulos custom made bots and he compared them to the students stats, I don't know if they are advisable to shoot for but I think it's good to know them or at least have a baseline for what GTO is.
My CFP is an absentee Landlord that only checks in when rent is due lol.
These numbers were pulled from Saulos custom made bots and he compared them to the students stats, I don't know if they are advisable to shoot for but I think it's good to know them or at least have a baseline for what GTO is.
Ok cool, because it looks like Call River is 39?
Are these numbers GTO-based or MDA-based? Call river actually seems a bit low to me
34% river bet in my pool by regs. Only 21% weak. Even stronger on A-High and Flush boards.
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Thanks ZK.
Okay I might need your Hand2Note expertise on this next spot I am deep diving. BvB spot
I get similar results as you in my DB. Runner runner flush boards tend to be few % less bluff heavy than 2t flops.
Mine is ~32% also. I don't think this stat is very relevant, though. It's very affected by how your opponents play and might just mean that you raise rivers more than GTO, which is likely optimal in most pools.
GTO often uses very small (~25% pot) bet sizings oop otr, which regs in most pools just don't do as much. This means that an average bet that you face otr is bigger than it would be vs a GTO bot, which makes it normal for your river call% to be lower.
I get similar results as you in my DB. Runner runner flush boards tend to be few % less bluff heavy than 2t flops.
Mine is ~32% also. I don't think this stat is very relevant, though. It's very afected by how your opponents play and might just mean that you raise rivers more than GTO, which is likely optimal in most pools.
GTO often uses very small (~25% pot) bet sizings oop otr, which regs in most pools just don't do. This means that an average bet size that you face otr is bigger than it would b
Good to know you also got rainbow being stronger than 2tone on FCR. Thanks for checking that.
Oh okay that actually does make sense wrt to the smaller bets in GTO.
I did get a response in the theory discord and the GTO % is between 36%-46% (the 35% was this student's call %).
Yes, maybe a bit higher, just depends on the sizes given to GTO bots. Detox guys are stationing hard and hit high 30s to low 40s on average.
GTO often uses very small (~25% pot) bet sizings oop otr, which regs in most pools just don't do as much. This means that an average bet that you face otr is bigger than it would be vs a GTO bot, which makes it normal for your river call% to be lower.
GTO will also raise more, so it’s kind of a wash.
My CFP is an absentee Landlord that only checks in when rent is due lol.
These numbers were pulled from Saulos custom made bots and he compared them to the students stats, I don't know if they are advisable to shoot for but I think it's good to know them or at least have a baseline for what GTO is.
Is it that bad? Metagame was one of the few CFPs in the market I ever thought about applying (despite the number of students they have being a red flag to me). Having to pay 55% to have a "boss" that will only reach me for payment, even already in the main team playing ssnl, seems a big no no.
It is abysmally low at around 18% over the 70k hands I played for my blog going from 5NL-50NL. This month I worked on improving it (and I thought I did), got it up to around 26% but only over 10k hands. Sample sizes too small and I just need to put in the volume, but I have been a lot more conscientious of bluff catch spots where I think population could be attacking my X ranges, as before I'd often just opt to fold. I'm playing micros so I can probably get away with overfolding
Rip me. I didn't realize Call River Bet needs to be much higher...
Is it that bad? Metagame was one of the few CFPs in the market I ever thought about applying (despite the number of students they have being a red flag to me). Having to pay 55% to have a "boss" that will only reach me for payment, even already in the main team playing ssnl, seems a big no no.
It's not bad, the information is really good. I think the main problem for me is that I get zero 1 on 1 coaching. (you have to play 1knl+ to get that) and that lack of community makes me less engaged to participate in anything beyond just poker strategy.
Group coaching is pretty useless imo. I'm stuck in there with 100nl guys that have like 2bb winrates so I don't learn that much and it's 90 minutes of my time I could be studying stuff I actually want to study. I stopped going to group coaching after the first few lessons.
The whole nature of a CFP is pretty interesting from a psychological stand point, you basically have coaches who are incentivized to help you but then I feel like they don't want to do **too much** work because it's not guaranteed you will succeed. So it becomes this half-assed approach where they give you the preliminary data but don't make them work too hard.
I'll give you an example, the past 2 days I have been bet/3bet OTF twice and I was curious about what villain had since I folded both times. I went into Ignition 24 hours later to see the hand histories and both villains had gutshots. I was a little annoyed since I had folded a decent value hand so I asked Metgame, hey can I see filters for bet/3bet SRP's and see range compositions.
This is their response.
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So yeah sometimes you don't get the response you want but overall they are good wrt to data.
A lot more hands than I thought I'd have
They offer a full stake right? You don't have to play with your money. If that's still the case, I can see value even if the coaching itself is not as top notch as I would like to get if I entered a CFP like Saulo's.
By the way, thanks for being open about your experience there.
They offer a full stake right? You don't have to play with your money. If that's still the case, I can see value even if the coaching itself is not as top notch as I would like to get if I entered a CFP like Saulo's.
By the way, thanks for being open about your experience there.
That's another thing. The stake thing bothers me a bit from a mental standpoint. They only give you 10buyins. I don't know if that is industry standard or what but 10 buyins is pretty terrible for a poker players mindset. And then if you lose you have to go back and ask for more buyins in a public discord.
One guy that came in with me in June (we were kind of paired up together) was a complete volume fiend and would show me how many hands he would play in a day (he was playing like 100k hands a month). Meanwhile, I'm over here barely playing 15k hands a month (but I would study a lot).
But one thing I noticed is that the guy would ALWAYS be in the re-buy discord asking for more buyins. I would go through the history of the discord and he was constantly asking for reloads.
Unfortunately, after a month or two I never heard from him again, I'm just assuming Metagame gave him the boot because he wasn't profitable.
Yeah no problem, let me know if you have any other questions.
I misspoke actually I meant turn after flop went x/x and I got 3bet OTT (although I do want to study flop 3bets as well).
It was BTNvsBB flop was like 763r or something I had ATo, I turned a Ten. After flop went X/X he probes 1/3 I raise 5x and then he 2.5x 3bet OTT with like A8o or something. It happened twice in two days with gutshots so I wasn't sure if it was an MDA play or what.
That's another thing. The stake thing bothers me a bit from a mental standpoint. They only give you 10buyins. I don't know if that is industry standard or what but 10 buyins is pretty terrible for a poker players mindset. And then if you lose you have to go back and ask for more buyins in a public discord.
One guy that came in with me in June (we were kind of paired up together) was a complete volume fiend and would show me how many hands he would play in a day (he was playing like 100k hands a
Cool thread, appreciate you sharing your experiences candidly with your CFP.
Regarding the 10 buy in thing I get your point, but from their perspective it does make sense as a backer to minimize their risk and exposure in the case of losing players and any scammers. And it is a somewhat reasonable amount to play w/.
If I was staking someone I would do 10 buy ins as well because you have a point to reassess if they lose it all.
Like I took a shot on this one guy to play 50nl on GG and after I shipped him 10 buy ins he lost it literally within an hour. I'm sure if I had given him 20 the only difference is I would've been out an addtional $500.
Cool thread, appreciate you sharing your experiences candidly with your CFP.
Regarding the 10 buy in thing I get your point, but from their perspective it does make sense as a backer to minimize their risk and exposure in the case of losing players and any scammers. And it is a somewhat reasonable amount to play w/.
If I was staking someone I would do 10 buy ins as well because you have a point to reassess if they lose it all.
Like I took a shot on this one guy to play 50nl on GG and after I shi
Thanks and that sucks you lost $500, people can be degens.
So my take on this is that the amount of buyins shouldn't be set in stone at 10buyins. It should be directly tailored to the player based on previous success and general rapport.
I've been given 10 buyins and I've been given 30 buyins before, I felt more trust with the guy who gave me 30 buyins. I wanted to succeed more for the guy who gave me 30 buyins. I tried harder for the guy who gave me 30 buyins.
I understand it's business, but there is a human element to it as well and that needs to be part of the equation imo.
