Berating a fish

It's an ecosystem issue.

When you make a recreational player's experience miserable, they’re far less likely to deposit again. They’ll play once or twice, realize poker players like you are toxic, and never return.

Now imagine that same player having a great experience. Sure, they lose their chips, but they had fun. They're now much more likely to reload, keep playing, and maybe even develop a lifelong love for poker.

By berating fish for short-term EV, you’re damaging the long-term health of the game. You're driving away exactly the kind of players poker needs to thrive, ultimately poisoning the ecosystem you depend on.

Why do you say this?

Why do you need to berate a fish to take his bankroll? How is berating them increasing your EV? It make make you feel good or superior, but how does it actually help you win?

There's banter, and then there's making people feel like crap so they make mistakes (but never want to play you again).

I've seen numerous examples of both. The best players, with the best verbal game (at least online), are charming, cheeky, entertaining and provide a fun experience for everyone, even when they're losing. The bad lot mainly bitch about their ego and luck and then everybody cheers when they leave.

I do not see a downside to berating a fish.

Are you autistic, or just an asshole?

What if getting that fish bankroll would mean you never being invited again to any decent live games in town (or to any game), and every single reg knowing you do that to fish. Is it still worth it?

If I'm a fish and we're playing live in a casino, I could also threaten to leave and tell to every single regular on the table that it is you or me. Can you guess who will leave first, peacefully or not that peacefully? 😀

First time browsing 2+2 in a while and I come across what's either a troll, rage bait or someone on the spectrum. Lovely.

And? Why would anyone care what they do after the person leaves table ?

Or the fish will leave because he is sick of being insulted. Or he will realize he is playing stupidly and decide to stop doing that.

In any case, you don’t need to MAKE a fish play badly. They will do so all by themselves. That’s what makes them a fish. No need to berate them to make them play lousy poker.

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When have you ever seen a fish play better? If they had the ability to play better they would already be doing it. And how often does a fish actually leave a table? Almost never so I don't see the downside

Perfect example today I'm playing with this fish was playing every hand and hitting them all, I then start chatting like a maniac in the chat box saying all kind of stuff to him and he plays even worse trying to beat me getting his money in twice with less than 1% to win in five card Omaha. I guarantee you my chat got him to play worse and I got all the money back. I mean I don't know I wasn't personally calling him names or anything I was just saying wow this guy is over playing every hand, this guy is chasing terrible draws and hitting them,. And I think that got him tilted up and he said I'm going to try twice as hard to beat this guy now and put a bad beat on him. And thankfully he didn't so to me that was a win. I'm saying there's a difference between personally attacking somebody and calling them names, or just complaining in the chat box about the way of fish is playing. I'm not saying I'm calling the guy an idiot and a moron or anything like that I'm just saying I might make comments that will put somebody on tilt

Thus by berating a fish you can make him play worse, but nothing can make him play better or leave. Learn something new every day on a poker theory forum!

My second point is if your goal is to wake up every day and come in and play poker and Gamble and try to put bad beats on people then you get and deserve what anybody says to you. I mean some people their entire goal is to play Garbage hands to try to put bad beats on people. And I say that's fine but on the flip side whatever anybody says you at the table you have to deal with it. All you can come in and play legitimate poker not do that and you probably won't get berated.b but I can't even remember a time where some fish got berated and started to play better. Like in 23 years I don't think I've ever seen it. How many times has a fish got paraded and left the table maybe three times in 23 years. But my mentality is if you are entire goal is just to get up and put bad beats on people to make them miserable because you think that's funny then fine you can do that you just got to expect that you're going to be berated

Chatbox is a different thing, I just play live and I felt better with you saying that you’re not calling the guy names which is what berating sounds like.

As some have noticed I can bow up when I have a strong opinion - I’m no different in real life - I don’t say anything on here I wouldn’t say to your face.

There was a guy in my room, a crazy reg that kept giving recs a hard time when his fancy play failed. I pulled him aside & said we don’t want to run people off. Immediately knew it was a mistake as guy was clueless, talking to himself all the time, mumbling so no one knew what he was saying & I don’t hear that great.

For some reason he thought we were pals, but the next time I was there when he started berating, I had enough. I simply said, maybe too loud, “Don’t talk to me anymore, I don’t want to hear anything you’ve got to say.”
He started mumbling, but knew I was serious.

I don’t know if it was a good play, but it was a good result - the guy hasn’t been back since. He must be terrorizing another room somewhere and our dealers & staff are thankful.

Sad about another very old veteran that had the best time playing poker. It started as playful fun I guess, but people made fun of him and eventually he caught on. He doesn’t come down to play poker anymore, just sticks to table games.

This is a toxic topic to me, because I think the game is supposed to be fun. But more than that, I think people are supposed to be nice. Your angle is not worth the harm it causes.

Let me elaborate a little bit more of how I'm thinking. Sometimes you sit at a table and a guy is playing wild playing every hand raising and re-raising and just trying to get lucky against everybody he's playing against. And that sense I see no problem commenting on how bad the guys playing you know just saying he's playing terrible poker or something like this. If it's an old guy that's sitting down playing one night of every 15 hands and he's playing terrible but he gets lucky I'm probably never going to say anything to that guy. It's just the people that come in they play wild insane Chase everything try to get lucky on every hand because that's their plan. Their plan is to get up go play poker and just try to put bad beats on people. I have no problem commenting on anything that guy's doing. But as I said I won't start personally attacking him. I'm not going to call him names and throw threats at him or anything like this, I'm just going to say how terrible this guy is playing and he's getting lucky. Main reason is I want him to stop doing that. Now I know you guys might say why would you want someone to stop doing that well I got 20 years plus of poker experience and I never win at those tables. So it's better for me if everybody tightens up a little bit. That's just what I found

Thanks for the clarification. I see the type you’re talking about, some of them are outgoing, funny guys. Why should I care how they play their cards? I don’t get involved in the banter, but I watch and notice things.

The difficulty with this type is that sometimes they have a hand and everyone thinks it’s junk. They will build a big stack, then give it all away and repeat. Wait for the downswing to play your marginals.

IDK why they don’t bother me. Maybe my TAG style keeps me out of trouble against them, but they do piss people off with beats. I would recommend letting them tilt the rest of the table, rather than attacking them.

Don’t discourage people with more money than sense. They are losers, they know it, but they don’t care. Makes them dangerous, but still beatable.