Covid-19 Discussion
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.
Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.
Ventilators are not in shortage.
Treatments are being developed.
There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.
The devastation of the cure:
Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison
We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).
Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.
Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.
LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!
And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
Again, what you're describing is not unique to this unvaccinated group. Btw no COVID vaccine was tested for protection from infection - they only measured whether it protected from symptomatic disease. And tjhe issue of variants is a problem for all cohorts, including the vaccinated group. Again, not unique to the unvaccinated group.
Astrazeneca's was , which actually backfired against them as the efficacy was clearly lower, and people had no clue so they compared that number with the mRNA efficacy numbers and the USA never even approved it given the mRNA ones were available.
That ended up being a reasonable choice by luck (as the side effect profile of astrazeneca was worse in Europe than that of mRNA vaccines) but i digress.
Fact is when vaccine mandates were predicated on healthy people not at risk, it was on the basis of *efficacy against infection* , so reaching that number in proper scientifical ways (not those who were used) would have been a requirement to justify that mandate. Except it wasn't, badly built observational studies (remember you cannot build a good one for these vaccine efficacy against infection for the reasons stated) overinflated that efficacy to justify mandates.
Later, it was so redicolous with vaccinated people getting infected all the times anyway, that the claim was "disappeared", but remember where it started, as a justification for historically unprecedented mandates for an rna virus.
So we had bad science used to justify mandates, and i am talking about how the science was bad in general, and how that has helped and is helping antivaxxers to throw away even the good science.
For example we could (and we did) build proper observational studies about efficacy against lethality in nursing homes, because we had countries that vaccinated sooner, and we had data on outbreaks before vaccination and after. And unlike the vaccinated vs the unvaccinated among working age people living normally, the "control groups" there weren't self selected.
So from that we got an exceptional efficacy vs lethality (among frail elders). Which prompted countries (here i included also not-first-world countries ofc) to accelerate coverage for elders, and saved a lot a lives. That's good science saving lives.
Math is hard for anti-vaxxers, and even some doctors. Perform any medical intervention on 200M people over a relatively short period of time and you're going to observe all sorts of problems...heart disease, lung cancer, kidney failure, seizures, etc... that occur as a natural course of life and healthcare. Where the math fails them is that if you take the average number of events for those conditions per year, divide by 12 to range-fit for the time for two vaccine dosages and some observation t
As a reminder, the logic on "long covidians" was exactly the same... and they didn't bother to ever check sequelae for all other common viral infections. They weren't crazy about "long flu" even if that's a thing as well.
Astrazeneca's was , which actually backfired against them as the efficacy was clearly lower, and people had no clue so they compared that number with the mRNA efficacy numbers and the USA never even approved it given the mRNA ones were available.
Do you have a reference to that? According to this press release their phase 3 trial had only sympomatic infection and serious illness as endpoints.
Fact is when vaccine mandates were predicated on healthy people not at risk, it was on the basis of *efficacy against infection* , so reaching that number in proper scientifical ways (not those who were used) would have been a requirement to justify that mandate. Except it wasn't, badly built observational studies (remember you cannot build a good one for these vaccine efficacy against infection for the reasons stated) overinflated that efficacy to justify mandates.
Later, it was so redicolous wi
Pfizer and Moderna's phase 3 methodology only tested participants who reported symptoms, so it clearly was not designed to test for protection against infection, nor did they represent it as such. I agree with you though that public health officials did start to insinuate the vaccines protected against infection, and sometimes made the claim outright, which clearly was not supported by the science since the trials didn't even include that as an endpoint, nor did they test for it. When pressed about it though they would back peddle on the claim and say it wasn't a proven benefit of the vaccine.
The efficacy results of the phase 3 trials did hold up though. Delta's 90% ICU/death admission rate of the unvaccinated almost exactly matched the efficacy results from the mRNA vaccine phase-3 trials.
As a reminder, the logic on "long covidians" was exactly the same... and they didn't bother to ever check sequelae for all other common viral infections. They weren't crazy about "long flu" even if that's a thing as well.
I don't follow what you mean about the logic being the same for long COVID.
So you should be. You'll get over it though. Take another break from the thread. Do some deep breathing exercises and the trauma will gradually subside.
Then you can come back and try once again to debunk me. You might succeed one day. Unlikely but you never know.
mj.gif
That's how much effort you're worth. Not even that really.
Gorgonian, BJ is a troll with the expressed goal of trolling the libs. He hits the nerve best when talking his particular brand of nonsense on the topics of C19/vax and "human caused climate change is a hoax".
None of that is a surprise to you.
But to the noobs that venture into P&S.... I thank you for your continued attempts to clear the air.
+1
It may look like it happened to someone who is interviewing a single lying nurse and to you, but no. Absolutely none of that is true. Epic's system does not change vaccination status for individual covid cases at all, it is based on the person's medical history. The field is not even binary, it is a list of dates. This lady is claiming that when she checks a patient with covid in, epic would erase their vaccination HISTORY, not just uncheck a box, and that it would undo it based on one entry int
I missed this earlier.
No that is not what she is saying.
What she is saying is the program automatically defaults all covid patients to unvaccinated. Thus if a patient has no vaccination history previously recorded in the system then they are classified as unvaccinated by default when they should be classified as unknown. And nurses weren't told how to change it. This would mean even if they found out the patient was in fact vaccinated subsequently they couldn't change it.. They would make notations in the chart, but the statistics the hospital reports are based on the vaccine status field, not from notes.
Gorgonian, BJ is a troll with the expressed goal of trolling the libs. He hits the nerve best when talking his particular brand of nonsense on the topics of C19/vax and "human caused climate change is a hoax".
None of that is a surprise to you.
But to the noobs that venture into P&S.... I thank you for your continued attempts to clear the air.
That is incorrect. My goal is to educate and inform people with a different point of view from that of the mainstream. Trolling the libs is just an added bonus.
What she is saying is the program automatically defaults all covid patients to unvaccinated.
Nurse's interpretation of this is incorrect. That field is simply left blank if no data has been entered up to that date.
This has been confirmed by my son. So there!
Spoiler
Son has been a rising star at...... wait for it...... Epic Systems in Verona, WI. While his particular field revolves around the front end of the patient portal, within his team is a senior programmer that when asked an hour ago (OK, two hours with the time zone difference) just shook her head and told my son (paraphrasing) "Yeah, we heard about that little group of nurses and we researched internally and found zero credibility."
I'll have to shame my son for thinking his research on this subject is meaningful without a scientific research paper to back his claim. lolbad.
Nurse's interpretation of this is incorrect. That field is simply left blank if no data has been entered up to that date.
This has been confirmed by my son. So there!
OK. I'll have to bow to your son's superior knowledge on the subject then.
Well done. Thanks for making the effort to find out.
Although the system may have possibly been set up differently in that nurses hospital. Not sure. She did say ” This happened in Kaiser. Unclear how many EPIC clients had the same programming."
That is incorrect. My goal is to educate and inform people with a different point of view from that of the mainstream. Trolling the libs is just an added bonus.
Funny how people like BJ think science is an opinion or point of view like a sports/political point or view ….
Tho in reality all he does he try to to give a narrative of anti science because he don’t realize main stream is base on what science actually says ….
So what they do ?
They used books with no relevant scientific value from obscur author or 1 dubious scientific study and think that is enough to counter hundreds/thousand scientific studies forming mainstream knowledge ….
Results -> they end up supporting anti science, anti covid, and ti vaccine, anti climate change, etc because they find one voice somewhere while thinking the others thousands are all bias but not the ONE he found !
“The ONE ring that control them all”
It’s actually sad how a seemingly guy that can be smart loses so much time and energy to such crazy witch hunt …
The system was not set up differently for that particular place of business. It could be tweaked by a local administrator with proper "clearance".... but to do the change suggested makes zero sense and would only be done with bad motives. (imo) It is not a minor tweak that could have been made by accident.
Why else make that tweak.... except by a rogue admin Brian? It makes NO medical sense.
The system was not set up differently for that particular place of business. It could be tweaked by a local administrator with proper "clearance".... but to do the change suggested makes zero sense and would only be done with bad motives. (imo) It is not a minor tweak that could have been made by accident.
Why else make that tweak.... except by a rogue admin Brian? It makes NO medical sense.
Well, it only makes sense if they wanted to inflate the number of unvaccinated deaths. Which is the allegation being made I believe. There's your bad motive.
Otherwise I agree it wouldn't make any sense.
No, it would also make sense if they wanted to inflate the number of vaccinated deaths.
Otherwise I agree it wouldn't make any sense.
Probably, he's been caught lying before:
Roseville doctor accused of issuing fake mask exemptions to students
A Roseville doctor faces criticism from fellow health care workers after being accused of handing out fake mask exemptions to students in the Eureka Union School District.
A group of former colleagues and concerned parents allege Dr. Michael Huang, a private practitioner in Roseville, sold complete mask exemptions for students, including a waiver for the wearing of face shields normally reserved for students who cannot wear masks.
Probably, he's been caught lying before:
Roseville doctor accused of issuing fake mask exemptions to students
A Roseville doctor faces criticism from fellow health care workers after being accused of handing out fake mask exemptions to students in the Eureka Union School District.
A group of former colleagues and concerned parents allege Dr. Michael Huang, a private practitioner in Roseville, sold complete mask exemptions for students, including a waiver for the wearing of face shields normally res
He was accused. He denied it. That's not what I would call caught lying exactly.
Dozens Of Students Go Maskless With Medical Exemption From One Roseville Doctor
Dozens of students are dropping their face masks at school thanks to a medical exemption.
Almost all of them are coming from just one doctor, but the school district says there's nothing it can do about it. Parents and the district now question why so many mask exemptions are coming from one local doctor.
The phone has been ringing off the hook at Dr. Michael Huang's Roseville office.
"We are fully booked up for the next three months, I can definitely get you in," his receptionist Ashley said on the phone.
They're all looking for the same thing: a medical mask exemption.
