Covid-19 Discussion
Has the wisdom and courage to realize that the cure has now become worse than the disease. It's time to open up. Stop moving the ball.
Hospital systems have not been overwhelmed.
Ventilators are not in shortage.
Treatments are being developed.
There is no cure or vaccine. This is not going away for four years.
The devastation of the cure:
Suicide rates picking up.
Massive economic devastation which causes depression, anxiety, obesity, again increase in suicide rates and directly impacts poorer economic areas.
Alcohol sales up 51%.
Domestic Abuse on the uprise
Child abuse on the uprise.
Hospitals that do not have COVID related issues are forced to lay off doctors and nurses as there are not enough patients to economically support it, meaning they won't have the staff to deal with COVID outbreaks.
Michael Avenatti gets released from prison
We all did our part. We sheltered (here in Pennsylvania for 5 weeks already).
Open the office buildings. Open the hair saloons. Get rid of stupid mask laws.
Continue to monitor outbreaks and in areas hospital systems become threatened, reenact tougher guidelines.
LET'S GET BACK TO WORK!
And stop shaming people that want common sense solutions. Waiting for a vaccine is stupid and unpractical.
Like they mandated masks to people with a beard, that's absolutely indefensible in any model (healthcare settings have beard rules for surgeons, many beards are utterly incompatible with mask efficacy for bacteria)
Gorgonian is basically saying that when we compared 1000 people never using a condom, and 1000 people very often using it, we can't actually determine if they work to reduce STD spread because sometimes, the second group doesn't wear it properly or takes it off .
Man if condoms work to reduce that contagion rate (and they do) even imperfect use has an exceptional efficacy compared to a group that *never* uses them
If the second group were wearing the condoms on only their scrotum and constantly ejaculating airborne semen into a room of women who inhaled through their vaginas constantly all day, this might be a closer analogue.
But good analogy otherwise.
This is my final attempt to get you to understand this. Then I'm just going to start laughing at you.
Let's say you have a 4 year old with covid. He wears a mask. He keeps it on his mouth and sometimes his nose because he's in the group of people that do that a lot (children and Republicans). He is breathing a sometimes slightly interrupted stream of covid into the air. His teacher will be exposed, without question.
Let's say you have a different 4 year old with covid. He doesn't wear a mask. He i
I am telling you No 4 year old wore masks in Italy and Spain in school.
All 15y old did.
If masks work to reduce the spread, teachers of 4y old should have been infected a ton more often than teachers of 15y old.
Do you understand this very basic logic? If teaching preschoolers doesn't infect you a ton more in those settings, you have absolute, certain proof of 0 efficacy of masks to protect others.
And it didnt
Mask mandates were absolutely useless all over the globe.
Blue masks did jack **** in aggregate.
But some people are allin with masks like a religion. It was their identity to wear one, to show people they were virtuous by wearing them, to scold others for not wearing one. They can't shed that identity and religion.
It will take time.
I am telling you No 4 year old wore masks in Italy and Spain in school.
All 15y old did.
If masks work to reduce the spread, teachers of 4y old should have been infected a ton more often than teachers of 15y old.
Do you understand this very basic logic? If teaching preschoolers doesn't infect you a ton more in those settings, you have absolute, certain proof of 0 efficacy of masks to protect others.
And it didnt
Gorgonian is basically saying that when we compared 1000 people never using a condom, and 1000 people very often using it, we can't actually determine if they work to reduce STD spread because sometimes, the second group doesn't wear it properly or takes it off .
Man if condoms work to reduce that contagion rate (and they do) even imperfect use has an exceptional efficacy compared to a group that *never* uses them
I got him to admit that mask mandates were useless everywhere in every country. But he still truly believes in blue masks and argues ferociously about it today.
I have to assume he spent a lot of mental energy to buy a lot of them, wear them everywhere he went. Because why else would someone defend masks so much while admitting mask mandates were useless?
Mask mandates were absolutely useless all over the globe.
Blue masks did jack **** in aggregate.
But some people are allin with masks like a religion. It was their identity to wear one, to show people they were virtuous by wearing them, to scold others for not wearing one. They can't shed that identity and religion.
It will take time.
Fact is in many cases masks mandates were a crime against minors, and people should be prosecuted and get their life ruined for what they did.
We should never forget and always and forever consider those people inherently inimical to the core tenets of society, and incompatible with it.
We can't go over the horror religious thinking did wrt COVID. We have to punish those people enough that the next time no one even think about hurting innocents before being absolutely certain it's indispensable to do so.
Economic lockdowns for people under 50/60 were the real crimes but the health officials were cowards and the politicans were even worst.
It was politically very easy to just shut the economy down for everyone vs letting the virus run its course through everyone under 50/60.
Economic lockdowns for people under 50/60 were the real crimes but the health officials were cowards and the politicans were even worst.
It was politically very easy to just shut the economy down for everyone vs letting the virus run its course through everyone under 50/60.
Colloquially known as "sacrifice grandma for the economy."
The proponents of that idea have no idea the damage covid really did (and is still doing) to the under 50/60 crowd, in addition to being ethically bankrupt.
Don't forget to show me where you got me to "admit that mask mandates were useless in every country."
These posts.
Mask Mandates were a complete Bust:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/21/opini...
It was painfully obvious to me about this back in fall of 2020 how useless these mask mandates and mask wearing at a population wide level. It finally took 3 years for people to turn the corner on this.
Mask mandates are generally useless because people won't wear masks consistently and correctly.
Mask usage is obviously beneficial and denying that is just dumb. Any quotes from any articles that say otherwise are just dumb and wrong. Data that purports to show masking doesn't work simply shows that mask mandates don't work. And the reason for that has already been explained.
Those are the facts.
If you have a particular study you'd like to examine in detail, I'd be happy to do that with you.
Economic lockdowns for people under 50/60 were the real crimes but the health officials were cowards and the politicans were even worst.
It was politically very easy to just shut the economy down for everyone vs letting the virus run its course through everyone under 50/60.
That's a different topic. I can forgive insane panicked NPIs in the first couple of months (ofc countries/states that didn't mandate them, showed a superior intelligence). But at least those weren't inherently evil choices, unlike NPI mandates far later on where everything was perfectly clear
Colloquially known as "sacrifice grandma for the economy."
The proponents of that idea have no idea the damage covid really did (and is still doing) to the under 50/60 crowd, in addition to being ethically bankrupt.
Don't forget to show me where you got me to "admit that mask mandates were useless in every country."
No point is we now know for a certainty, and we could have guessed at the time, all the sacrifices to try to save grandma were completly useless.
So it was sacrifice the economy to bury grandma anyway, but without a funeral because the left doesn't want you to honor your dead people.
It was almost Pareto inefficient to react. If we had did absolutely nothing almost all variables on society would have been better.
Mandating NPIs for covid was the worst mistake in public policy in world history by a very large margin, nothing comes close in peacetime.
[quote="Me"]
Mask mandates are generally useless because people won't wear masks consistently and correctly.
[/quote]
[quote="thing you said I sad"]
Mask mandates were useless in every country.[/quote]
Do you see how those aren't the same? There were many places where mask mandates made a difference, but generally, yeah, when people don't wear them consistently and correctly, they are useless.
Obviously.
The place where I worked had a mask mandate and our environment fared a ton better than similar ones in our area that did not have one. It wasn't even close.
So no, I didn't think then nor now that all mask mandates were useless.
But since the general population is really bad at it, yes, they are useless for most crowds.
Colloquially known as "sacrifice grandma for the economy."
The proponents of that idea have no idea the damage covid really did (and is still doing) to the under 50/60 crowd, in addition to being ethically bankrupt.
Don't forget to show me where you got me to "admit that mask mandates were useless in every country."
Wrong again.
Keep grandma lockdown in her home, let it rip for everyone else.
That was the morally correct decision.
How much damage covid did to the under 50/60 crowd is statistically irrelevant, so minor compared to everyone under 50/60 that caught it. Statistically irrelevant and not something to be concerned about.
And let's not forget the fat and unhealthy people that are always having "long covid symptoms" due to being unhealthy and fat. But labelling it off as long covid issues. The statistical irrelevance would decrease even further if we took that into consideration.
Do you see how those aren't the same? There were many places where mask mandates made a difference, but generally, yeah, when people don't wear them consistently and correctly, they are useless.
Obviously.
The place where I worked had a mask mandate and our environment fared a ton better than similar ones in our area that did not have one. It wasn't even close.
So no, I didn't think then nor now that all mask mandates were useless.
But since the general population is really bad at it, yes, they are
How do you know it was the mask mandate that worked in your workplace, and not all the correlates?
People willing to wear masks are more introvert, go out less often, have a smaller social network, and in general will strongly correlate to be less predisposed to COVID infection. IE social losers, with bad, dry, sad social lives win when there is a pandemic.
Social losers , people with nothing or almost nothing to lose by wearing masks, will be more willing to wear masks in the first place.
So you mandate masks among social losers , you find efficacy, what reduced the spread? The fact that those losers with little social life didn't have many occasions to get infected to begin with, or the masks?
Fat and unhealthy people are constantly fatigued and tired, before covid, and after covid. And statistically they make up quite a large % of the American population.
So when the researchers asked them if they had long covid symptoms like fatigue, of course all of them will say "yes". And then people that don't look closely at the data will wrongfully assume long covid effects a large % of the population.
It doesn't. Under 50/60 People's fat and unhealthy lifestyles have a larger impact on their quality of life than covid did.
So this entire premise that we needed to lockdown all the under 50 and 60 year olds because of long covid concerns was completely overblown and outright wrong.
You could just read something instead of larping as a health expert
That would be the noble thing to do
95% of the extended conversations on this sub could be killed before they begin if people were only willing to type a few words into google and spend a few minutes reading
You could just read something instead of larping as a health expert
That would be the noble thing to do
95% of the extended conversations on this sub could be killed before they begin if people were only willing to type a few words into google and spend a few minutes reading
I agree with the bolded.
Health experts told us so much **** that ended up being false, like covid being dangerous for people under 50/60 which is demonstrably false.
Health experts said mask mandates would work to stop the spread, it didn't at all.
Health experts also screamed about long covid for the young which is shown to be one fat nothing burger in aggregate.
You could just read something instead of larping as a health expert
That would be the noble thing to do
95% of the extended conversations on this sub could be killed before they begin if people were only willing to type a few words into google and spend a few minutes reading
Do you know that national health institutes in different countries ended up with very different recommendations for their populations?
And all those institutes are usually populated by people who spent their entire life studying public health literature.
If people who dedicated their whole adult life to study these very topic ended up with completely different, sometimes opposed, views on what was right and wrong, why do you believe non professionals would coalesce to any specific view?
Do you understand there was absolutely no scientific consensus about most COVID related questions and topics, except perhaps that vaccines worked very well?
Doesn't the absolute lack of any consensus tell you that perhaps people lied to you all along, when they told you there was a consensus?
I agree with the bolded.
Health experts told us so much **** that ended up being false, like covid being dangerous for people under 50/60 which is demonstrably false.
Health experts said mask mandates would work to stop the spread, it didn't at all.
Health experts also screamed about long covid for the young which is shown to be one fat nothing burger in aggregate.
The worst was health experts still telling us we had to distance and mask even after a miracolous vaccine had been developed.
Science actually delivered an holy grail, a very quickly developed vaccine with very little side effects and monstrous efficacy, and "experts" still told us we couldn't live normally even when inoculated with that... That was when a lot of normies understood we were being scammed
Do you know that national health institutes in different countries ended up with very different recommendations for their populations?
And all those institutes are usually populated by people who spent their entire life studying public health literature.
If people who dedicated their whole adult life to study these very topic ended up with completely different, sometimes opposed, views on what was right and wrong, why do you believe non professionals would coalesce to any specific view?
Do you und
Or you could just look at countries with massive, congested populations that had lower infection and death rates. You know, rates to the tune of 5-10x lower than ours
Oh, I'm shocked, they all implemented lockdowns and/or mask mandates.
Shocked.
Btw, thats how statistics work. Numbers are simple and pure.
