2024 ELECTION THREAD

Well I think people like yourself should be put in jail with much longer term jail time using hate rhetoric like yourself …

You get now why the use of violence should be kept to a minimum by the state ?

You don’t want too much power in the hands of governments to be able to shut you down with your free speech and libertarian concept of what life should be right ?

You hold a funny stance of being libertarian and yet advocating the kind of government control u demand for ….
China Russia are nice model to your taste it seems .

Ah yes the old : I’m for total freedom but only for the freedom i like .
Those who have a different way of Thinking should be put to jail or death …
No compromise !!! ( nice democratic view about liberty and freedom and democracy …😉

Now imagine if 90% of the others citizen
( ho yes you are that far off from mainstream)
would actually had the power you wish the government have and what they could do to you today !!!

Be careful what you wish for , you might end up on the wrong side of very bad outcomes unknowingly ….
When you give power to someone , make you would not mind your « ennemies » had it and what they could do to you .

I mean I disagree with them but if that’s your example of crazy I guess I just wonder what their reasoning for voting that way is. My understanding is that it has to do with labeling certain energy sources as sustainable for the purposes of investment?

I looked through the Green Deal and it seems pretty solid. Not perfect, and I’m sure there will be growing pains, but it looks like Europe is set up to be a leader in renewable energy. Are we sure that by the time everything is set up you guys won’t be paying less than the rest of the world for energy?

Remember that that's the left party.

I don't know which blatant absurdity they use to oppose nuclear (probably depending on the people, it's different lies about it) but i hope you 1) know that many leftits actually oppose it, that has always been the case 2) accept that they are complety crazy to oppose it.

For natgas, they want a much more rapid transition to "no emissions" in general and "degrowth" in general in the economy, they don't care if it means poverty. So they oppose passing through gas from coal/oil (for electricity production) , they want those plants shut down whatever the consequences.

I don't know what else that crazy / utterly evil you can use to describe someone who thinks reducing emissions is a first order priority above almost everything else for society, yet opposes nuclear.

Crazy, if he actually believes emission reduction is important, then being anti nuclear is utterly crazy.

Evil, if he is pretending emission reduction is the goal while the goal is to dismantle capitalism and so on.

Not sure why you think installing solar panels in ... Germany is going to be a splendid idea, it's not like we haven't done that already at insane costs , costs which before the eu-wide deal german electricity users paid as surplus in their bills.

To reach this (i use pre-covid/ukraine war because it avoids recent complications)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Reta...

That adds up and should be computed as costs even in the future, all those subsidizes were potentially directable elsewhere and so on.

If in 2028 for a year or two kwh prices are decent that doesn't justify the insane costs, you have to account in RoE terms, with compound interest since inception of the program and so on. One of the worst waste of public money ever tbh.

And the green deal just makes that even worse.

donny da dove threatens the genocide machine, they big mad

I mean it all depends on how we’re caching this stuff out. I think that they are trying to come up with investments that will allow us to reach certain emissions targets. It’s going to take a lot of investment to do that, and the benefits might not be seen right away. No one is arguing that at the onset it will be cheaper, but over the long term I think many of the Green Deal policies will be reproduced in other countries, and then others might not be.

The vote you were pointing to failed for one and it seemed like it was talking about labeling certain energy sources as sustainable for the purposes of investment/certification. I personally favor your suggestion of replacement, especially natural gas with coal which has shown a lot of benefits in the US. We’ll see which approach shows more benefits over time. You have a lot of pessimism about the European approach, but how do you know that it won’t lead to some gigantic technological innovation that will be reproduced by other countries throughout the world using European businesses and consultants? Or EU may become a global tourist destination because of their preservation of biodiversity and natural beauty, clean air and streets?

The whole point of the Green Deal seems to be making sure there is a transition that allows European markets to remain strong. It is the exact opposite of marxism, it is a market approach using supply side investment.

I don’t think people are crazy or evil for wanting that. We can definitely both agree that throwing soup on fine art and blocking streets for normal citizens is definitely not the way to go, but I doubt it lives up to “terrorism”. And I would bet all the money I have that in ten-twenty years there will be no ecological genocide you keep insinuating is right around the corner, and you will still be living in Italy complaining about neomarxists.

Throwing soup at art isn't terrorism. It's "only" politically motivated vandalism which should carry stricter penalties that it currently does but isn't terrorism.

Blocking bridges , trains, airports is terrorism.

This is terrorism which should carry the death penalty/life no parole not only for perpetrators but for organizers as well and any donor who knew this was the intent and so on

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-climate-ac....

Cutting through a fence to enter an airport to block flights from taking off is terrorism.

Anyway the ecological-motivated economic genocide *is already happening in europe*. Germany economy is doing horribly currently because of it, even in a world where economic conditions are still way above average (namely, the USA are still going well). They are assassinating their manufacturing sector and with it a significant portion of the northern italian one. We are nimbler, already reduced in size a lot because of several crisis, and so we have less to lose but still, a disaster.

This is the picture of the economic genocide (keep in mind that the normal state of affair is for the line to grow every year)

We are ALREADY paying outrageous prices for gasoline and electricity. Every day of every week of every month of every year we pay the blood price to green marxism.

Hey guys let's protest these jaywalking laws.

Luciom--plug in the chair.

Wait why are you posting this article? It says that the German Interior Minister already proposed severe jail time for such actions and called it stupid. And please don’t say I’m moving the goalposts, because I agree that sending them to jail for a long time should be the punishment here. Not execution of life sentence, that’s pretty stupid, but like a 5-10 year sentence seems reasonable.

By the way I hope you know that I have always been very critical of these actions and think that the organizers that direct them to do it should face harsh jail sentences. I think it’s evil that they tell good kids with their life ahead of them to throw their life away even if they think it’s for a good cause. As you might know I’m a vegan and this happens a lot in our movement, I think it’s really really bad.

In the US enviroterrorism is already listed as an activity the FBI watches for, is it not the same in European states?

Anyway the ecological-motivated economic genocide *is already happening in europe*. Germany economy is doing horribly currently because of it, even in a world where economic conditions are still way above average (namely, the USA are still going well). They are assassinating their manufacturing sector and with it a significant portion of the northern italian one. We are nimbler, already reduced in size a lot because of several crisis, and so we have less to lose but still, a disaster.

This is the picture of the economic genocide (keep in mind that the normal state of affair is for the line to grow every year)

We are ALREADY paying outrageous prices for gasoline and electricity. Every day of every week of every month of every year we pay the blood price to green marxism.

GDP is still going up year over year and quality of life is still great in Europe compared to all other places except the US. I don’t see some isolated stat as a big deal.

As it usually happens , they will be the first of benefiting from
Innovation and make lot of money exporting it .

That’s sort of how I see it as well. Also if the member states hate it so much they can always just leave like Britain did. My guess is that they don’t because the benefits of the EU and Euro-zone are enormous for the member states, and this environmental legislation is relatively popular.

And by the way Britain is not exactly doing so hot itself economically.

whole of northern europe is doing about the same, which is basically zero per capita gdp growth since 2008

germany did however perform a special self-own by closing all its energy generating capacity because of [unmentionable national psyche reasons] and bc they thought they could rely on russian gas. ups.

The real problem is that you don’t realize YOU are the threat ….
Like all fascist, dictator , communist , theocratic , authoritarian ideologues that claim they aren’t a threat while calling every other line of thinking of them -> ennemies!

And sadly because we live in a pretty good democracy and wouldn’t accept government authority you advocate , it’s what permit you to still be able to be free and still breath ….

Then they allowed EU-wide rules that fine automotive companies if they don't sell enough EV (a growing percentage of total every year) and when chinese companies started making cheap EVs and some countries reduced incentives to buy EVs because they costed too much, they got massacred.

Volkswagen is going to collapse production and so on.

It's a disaster which the USA have to avoid at all costs which is why i keep talking about it in a thread on american elections: green policies are the road to economic hell. Green is the new red, the whole green concoction is marxism 2.0

Done.

#Thinman has been banned for 24 hours.

Friends, please don’t do things that break threads.

If I may had .
IMHO Europe has as well a debt problem and a too strong currency that permit them to be very competitive and on international markets .

Transitioning like they do on climate changes will be difficult, painful and Inflationary.
But seem it’s what actually what they need and once the transition done, the benefits should be pretty good with a bonus of great healthy environment.

Ps: and for those that think money is what is the most important thing in life well …..

1 down, 1 to go.

If Sklansky is still a site admin, you can't ban him unfortunately. A sternly worded letter will have to suffice.

GDP has recovered to pre-2008 levels and their quality of life has remained extremely high in Finland for example. Why are people acting like Europe is in a complete death spiral when it couldn’t be further from the truth?

Ah yes, all these Green policies involve centralized control of government and an end of markets. I’m convinced at this point it’s just rhetoric. Green Deal is specifically a MARKET-BASED solution, which is why certain activists hate it.

If we are talking about opposing socialism, I say absolutely. Let’s not become socialist countries, especially not Stalinism or Maoism. That’s not what we’re talking about though and you know it.

its not in a death spiral, but compared to the other important economic regions of the world its been a rough 15 years, and people are getting a bit annoyed about it

But on the bright side people invested in property and the stock market have been doing just great. I wonder how this could be?

it's not a death spyral because it's reversible if we remove leftism from decision making for 10+ years but if we don't it's a death sentence

presumably you want to blame capitalism, an argument which falls over immediately when you look at how well the usa has done economically over the same period

when you ban stuff and subsidize stuff you cease to care about "the market" and you are centralizing.

I oppose centralized planning and decision making in every aspect of the economy the government is terrible at picking winners and there should never be any planning of economic activity at the state level in any form

Hopeless thing to say about a country with even worse housing and homelessness problems than the UK, but as usual the capitalism-shaggers don't consider that.