2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
hate elon as much as the next guy but i don't see the hypocrisy in this. government funded covert censorship campaigns forced on unwilling private platforms with threat of ratcheting regulations if they don't comply is uniquely different than "rich guy buys media asset to control the narrative on the platform he now owns". if we lived in an alternate universe where twitter files were perpetrated by GOP admin to pursue their agenda it'd be the biggest story of the year and win all the pulitzers.
His actions contradict his words, and a lot of the people who had a problem with social media bias dismiss it when it's in their favor. Definitely hypocritical.
Can we substantively look at who is voting with who instead of just looking at the optics of the situation? Liz Cheney voted in line with Trump on nearly everything. The only reason she stopped supporting him was because it was politically expedient for her to.
You're like a newborn baby. Claiming a single person in the entire extended Cheney family does anything for "democracy" is hilariously naive.
You're like a newborn baby. Claiming a single person in the entire extended Cheney family does anything for "democracy" is hilariously naive.
Politically expedient? Because she took this position she was ousted from the Republican party. That's the opposite of politically expedient. I'm no fan of Liz Cheney either, we have large differences of opinion on policy. But she's literally been made persona non grata in her party due to standing up to Trump.
His actions contradict his words, and a lot of the people who had a problem with social media bias dismiss it when it's in their favor. Definitely hypocritical.
Basically this
Leon took over Twitter under the guise of being a ‘free speech absolutist’ and said the whole point of free speech is pissing off the far right and far left equally. Literally no action he has taken since buying it, from who he has unbanned, to who he has banned, to the algorithmic weighting, to his own amplifications shows anything other a singular partisan lean. And that’s before his whole Señor Dark MAGA **** and all-in deepthroating of trump. Again, that’s fine, it’s his company and he is under no obligation to hide his preference, but it still represents a massive hypocrisy between actions versus what they’re whining about
of course elon is hypocritical, that's like his raison d'etre. but people being politically opposed to govt power to censor a la twitter files while accepting elon's right to censor the platform he owns is not the gotcha hypocrisy made out to be. it's actually been the norm for our nation's entire history
hate elon as much as the next guy but i don't see the hypocrisy in this. government funded covert censorship campaigns forced on unwilling private platforms with threat of ratcheting regulations if they don't comply is uniquely different than "rich guy buys media asset to control the narrative on the platform he now owns". if we lived in an alternate universe where twitter files were perpetrated by GOP admin to pursue their agenda it'd be the biggest story of the year and win all the pulitzers.
The twitter files showed that Trump DID ask for twitter to remove certain posts as well. And that was the Trump ADMINISTRATION versus the Biden CAMPAIGN.
https://www.businessinsider.com/twitter-...
Also with the removal of the JD Vance Dossier at the request of Trump, I wonder what other things Elon is doing to tip the scale to Trump. You think he's above the same type of censorship campaign that he said he bought twitter to expose?
The twitter files showed that Trump DID ask for twitter to remove certain posts as well. And that was the Trump ADMINISTRATION versus the Biden CAMPAIGN.
great, lets shame trump admin for their role as well. just demonstrates both sides will abuse censorship privileges if given the opportunity. but majority of relevant twitter files were under biden admin so the story is de facto mainstream undesirable. if it was primarily under trump everyone would be up in arms calling it the greatest threat to democracy yet
Also with the removal of the JD Vance Dossier at the request of Trump, I wonder what other things Elon is doing to tip the scale to Trump. You think he's above the same type of censorship campaign that he said he bought twitter to expose?
if you're criticizing media platforms tipping the scales in favor of a candidate and you don't see that happening on the other side i don't know what to tell you
of course elon is hypocritical, that's like his raison d'etre. but people being politically opposed to govt power to censor a la twitter files while accepting elon's right to censor the platform he owns is not the gotcha hypocrisy made out to be. it's actually been the norm for our nation's entire history
This is a pretty good point, but social media encompasses everyone's voice. The influence is quite different than if he were to buy a newspaper or TV station.
great, lets shame trump admin for their role as well. just demonstrates both sides will abuse censorship privileges if given the opportunity. but majority of relevant twitter files were under biden admin so the story is de facto mainstream undesirable. if it was primarily under trump everyone would be up in arms calling it the greatest threat to democracy yet
Wait, hold on. I might be going crazy here. I just refreshed myself on the Twitter files and from what I see, it had mostly to do with what happened while Trump was STILL PRESIDENT. It didn't have to do with the Biden admin, but rather some of it was about the Hunter Biden laptop story. The Biden campaign did reach out to try to remove some tweets, but what Taibbi failed to include in there was that four out of the five tweets involved nude images of Hunter Biden, which by the way is illegal anyway since it's revenge porn.
Taibbi also shared a screenshot of what appeared to be a request from the Biden campaign asking for a review of five tweets, along with the Twitter moderation team's reply, "Handled these." Taibbi did not disclose the content of those tweets,[38] but four were later found from internet archives to contain nude images of Hunter Biden,[17] which violated Twitter policy and California law as revenge porn;[22] the content of the fifth deleted tweet is unknown.[22][24]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Fi...
Maybe there was some part of the Twitter Files about the Biden white house, but I just can't recall it. And absolutely Trump was implicated by the Twitter Files, but the reason why it didn't become more of a thing was that many people reflexively wanted to disregard it without reading it, which I agree is probably a problem. I've said many times I don't trust the media and commentators to read anything, so I never take their word on it. Another reason the story probably didn't blow up is that we all kind of know that Trump is a whiny crybaby who is thin skinned and the world bends over backwards to accommodate him. The Twitter Files would be just the third story of that day covering that part of Trump's psyche. Another reason the Twitter Files probably didn't blow up is that many people on the Dem side think that content should be more moderated, not less, so it doesn't fit in with their priors about how content moderation should work in general.
if you're criticizing media platforms tipping the scales in favor of a candidate and you don't see that happening on the other side i don't know what to tell you
I see bias towards Kamala Harris, for sure, but the problem is that Trump's behavior is so insanely out of the ordinary that a slight bias towards Kamala objectively is actually a relatively HUGE bias towards Trump. If you do a 1 to 1 fact check on Trump and Kamala, selecting one lie of Kamala's for every one lie of Trump's, people are going to get the impression that both lie at the same rate. Now let's say you do 2 lies to 1 lie. People are going to get the impression that you're biased against Trump. Well if the truth is that Trump lies at a rate of 100 to 1, you're actually biased IN HIS FAVOR by reporting lies at a 2 to 1 clip.
On top of this, I think the media in general needs to be approached with caution. Most people have no idea how to actually interface with media or how to use it responsibly. People watch opinion shows and treat them as if they are news shows. That should never happen for anyone responsibly using media.
This is of course mostly nonsense. If the Republicans were like "let's be Pure Hitler" and the Democrats were like "ok we like Hitler too but just a little less of him" would you still put them on the left?
You sort of assume that we have two parties who work in opposition to each other which of course we do not-- in almost all areas concerning foreign policy they're completely in lock step.
Name some major countries that have foreign policy that wildly swings wrt which group is in power at any given point.
Which party is running on eliminating the concept of overtime completely?
I can easily get on board with the both parties are the same thing--in some ways. But there are also absolutely some real differences and that's just reality.
Laura ‘shut up and dribble’ Ingraham interviewing Harrison Butker about his election views sounds….about right
As always, ideological convenience > ideological consistency
Name some major countries that have foreign policy that wildly swings wrt which group is in power at any given point.
Which party is running on eliminating the concept of overtime completely?
I can easily get on board with the both parties are the same thing--in some ways. But there are also absolutely some real differences and that's just reality.
Ukraine, Venezuela, Colombia, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, El Salvador... probably most of Latin America....probably lots of Africa.
As you get to more developed nations their foreign policy is going to be more consistent because they'll have developed more of a robust ruling class and have their own unaparties developed.
Ukraine, Venezuela, Colombia, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, El Salvador... probably most of Latin America....probably lots of Africa.
As you get to more developed nations their foreign policy is going to be more consistent because they'll have developed more of a robust ruling class and have their own unaparties developed.
^Which is essentially arguing against what were you were saying originally wrt left and right. Left and Right--"Here" has everything to do with internal politics and basically zero to do with outward facing stuff. Once you get to international diplomacy basically you're talking about a different animal.
Wait, hold on. I might be going crazy here. I just refreshed myself on the Twitter files and from what I see, it had mostly to do with what happened while Trump was STILL PRESIDENT. It didn't have to do with the Biden admin, but rather some of it was about the Hunter Biden laptop story. The Biden campaign did reach out to try to remove some tweets, but what Taibbi failed to include in there was that four out of the five tweets involved nude images of Hunter Biden, which by the way is illegal any
I just refreshed myself on the relevant portion of the Twitter Files re: Hunter Biden laptop. This was indeed hacked materials, and the policy was immediately updated by Twitter to make it so that they are allowed but it has to have a flag on the tweet (precursor to community notes I suppose).
So the Vance Dossier being banned from twitter at the request of Trump is a 1:1 comparison to the Hunter Biden laptop story.
I just refreshed myself on the relevant portion of the Twitter Files re: Hunter Biden laptop. This was indeed hacked materials, and the policy was immediately updated by Twitter to make it so that they are allowed but it has to have a flag on the tweet (precursor to community notes I suppose).
So the Vance Dossier being banned from twitter at the request of Trump is a 1:1 comparison to the Hunter Biden laptop story.
sounds comparable but not 1:1 given FBI issued a warning to media cos that hunter laptop was a russian op
^Which is essentially arguing against what were you were saying originally wrt left and right. Left and Right--"Here" has everything to do with internal politics and basically zero to do with outward facing stuff. Once you get to international diplomacy basically you're talking about a different animal.
I'm not too sure I follow what you're saying but I don't think the fact that foreign policy is largely stable in developed nations goes against my position.
sounds comparable but not 1:1 given FBI issued a warning to media cos that hunter laptop was a russian op
You had Trump's personal lawyer visiting the region and meeting with known Kremlin propagandists. A lawyer that would later lose his license and a 100 million_ lawsuit for slandering 2 innocent women and costing them their house/job with lies that they comitted election fraud.
sounds comparable but not 1:1 given FBI issued a warning to media cos that hunter laptop was a russian op
To be clear, the FBI is accused of knowing that the laptop was authentic but not disconfirming that it was a Russian Op. It was still the choices of the social media company to actually censor the story (at first), which most rescinded the censorship after a week at most and may have actually contributed to how big the story was.
The JD Vance Dossier was probably said to be hacked by the FBI, although I don’t know the details.
To be clear I’m not saying I have all the answers on how this should all be handled. I think that content moderation is tricky. If it’s all 100% laissez faire then they are hugely vulnerable to manipulation.
You had Trump's personal lawyer visiting the region and meeting with known Kremlin propagandists. A lawyer that would later lose his license and a 100 million_ lawsuit for slandering 2 innocent women and costing them their house/job with lies that they comitted election fraud.
are you talking about the vance dossier?
To be clear, the FBI is accused of knowing that the laptop was authentic but not disconfirming that it was a Russian Op. It was still the choices of the social media company to actually censor the story (at first), which most rescinded the censorship after a week at most and may have actually contributed to how big the story was.
zuckerberg came out publicly last month to express regret at caving to gov't pressure to censor posts. fbi pressure on hunter laptop was highlighted. they didn't send memos to FB et al saying "if you don't censor these stories you will suffer severe consequences" because they didn't have to. the cudgel is the threat of stringent regulations and congressional hearings as retribution, which were both threatened and feared.
You had Trump's personal lawyer visiting the region and meeting with known Kremlin propagandists. A lawyer that would later lose his license and a 100 million_ lawsuit for slandering 2 innocent women and costing them their house/job with lies that they comitted election fraud.
Everything about trump and MAGA by extension is unsettling but **** like bolded is the worst. Innocent people’s lives were destroyed for the crime of *checks notes* existing. There is no bottom they won’t sink to. As far as Donald trump is concerned everyone living is a pawn to be used for the betterment of Donald trump
The Hunter Biden laptop. Guiliani's goal was to spread misinformation before and after the election. Reputable news organizations were right not to use him as a source for anything. If you lie all the time you can't really blame people for not believing you.
Everything about trump and MAGA by extension is unsettling but **** like bolded is the worst. Innocent people’s lives were destroyed for the crime of *checks notes* existing. There is no bottom they won’t sink to. As far as Donald trump is concerned everyone living is a pawn to be used for the betterment of Donald trump
It's pretty crazy it's not a bigger story. Both sides bros go to absurd lengths to [retend like it's no big deal, but if you're a normal person someone like Trump or Musk could absolutely destroy your life just because of your race or the fact that you're an election worker and they have no problem doing so.
zuckerberg came out publicly last month to express regret at caving to gov't pressure to censor posts. fbi pressure on hunter laptop was highlighted. they didn't send memos to FB et al saying "if you don't censor these stories you will suffer severe consequences" because they didn't have to. the cudgel is the threat of stringent regulations and congressional hearings as retribution, which were both threatened and feared.
I’d have to look at specifically what he said to make a comment about this, but you do realize that this government pressure does come from both sides, like Trump threatening to rescind section 230 is also a form of government pressure.
I do think that there was a sort of bipartisan belief that we shouldn’t just let foreign governments use our platform to spread misinformation and that this was generally ok. I’m not sure of the specifics of what posts were deleted or what amount of communication between the US government and social media companies is ok, but I’m not sure the type of pressure facebook was under was completely unwarranted.
Like one of the allegations is that facebooks targeted ads were giving demographic data that allowed political operatives to specifically target people for misinformation. I’d have to refresh myself on how that was happening. But one of the things is that congress does generally have the power to hold hearings about what large corporations are doing.
I'm not too sure I follow what you're saying but I don't think the fact that foreign policy is largely stable in developed nations goes against my position.
It goes against the argument for widening the ideological spectrum for the funzies.
Foreign policy is a solved game in relation to the uneducated plebs insofar that we wouldn't adopt a North Korean style diplomacy which inevitably forces its govt to consider it a treachery against its nation if their folks demanded to leave just because they are a few steps behind understanding how **** works. Advanced countries don't acknowledge that strategy the same way Phil Ivey isn't going to fold pocket kings because you've got a bunch of idiots who've never placed poker saying that men are evil. It's just dumb once international economic stability is understood.
