Moderation Questions
The last iteration of the moderation discussion thread was a complete disaster. Numerous attempts to keep it on topic failed, and it became a general discussion thread with almost no moderation related posts at all. And those that were posted were so buried in non-mod posts that it became a huge time drain on the mods to sort through them. Then, when off topic posts were deleted posters complained about that.
This led to the closing of the mod discussion thread, replaced by the post report/pm approach. This has filtered out lots of noise, but has resulted at times in the General Discussion Thread turning into a quasi-mod thread. This is not desirable, but going back to the old mod thread is also not a workable option.
Therefore, I have created this new moderation thread, but with a different purpose and ground rules than previous mod threads. The purpose of this thread is to provide a place for posters to pose questions to the mods about how policies are applied; to bring to the mods attention posts they think are inappropriate and reach the level of requiring mod action; and for mods to communicate to posters things like changes or clarifications to policies, bannings, etc.
Now let me tell you what this thread is NOT a place for. It is not for nonmoderation related posts, even if the discussion originates from a comment in in a mod related post. It is not for posters to post their opinions about other posters or whether a poster should be banned. It is not to rehash past grievances about mod decisions from months or years ago. The focus of this thread will be recent posts that require action now. Or questions about current policies and enforcement.
So basically, this is a thread to ask mods questions. Which means, pretty much that only mods should be answering those questions. If a poster asks why a particular post was deleted or allowed, only a mod can answer that. Everyone else who wants to jump in with their opinion or their mod war story needs to stay out of it. It just increases the noise to signal ratio and does nothing to answer the question.
Everyone needs to understand that this thread has very different rules than the old mod thread and any other thread. Any non-moderation post will be deleted on sight. Not moved to the appropriate thread, just deleted. So don't waste your time crafting a masterpiece post about wars or transgender issues or the presidential election and then post it in this thread. It will be gone. Also, this isnt a thread for general commentary about our mods performance. Posting "browser sucks as a mod" or any such posts that don't actually ask about a policy or request a mod action will be deleted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the moderation of this forum. But this thread isnt for complaining about mods. You are free to go to the ATF forum and make your concerns about modding in this forum there.
So with that intro, this thread is open for those who need to bring questions about mod policies or bring inappropriate posts to the mods attention. Again, it is NOT a thread for group discussions about other posters or for other posters to answer questions directed to mods.
We'll see how this goes. If you have what you feel is an open issue raised in the General Discussion Thread, please copy that post or otherwise reintroduce the issue here.
Thanks.
I don't think this is the proper thread to discuss claims about immigration in general, and in particular a specific claim i made about immigration by boat in Italy in recent years. Keep in mind for example that it's a crime to immigrate by boat the way they do it while it is not a crime to overstay a visa in Italy. It is more expensive to come by boat (and far more risky) than coming as a tourist and overstay your visa.
So if you choose the boat path (for Italy, these days) anyway you are self-selected a lot (for extremely negative traits) vs a random person from your country and especially vs someone from your same country that comes as a tourist or student or whatever and then overstays.
It means you have no legal way to get a visa even if you have the money for the boat trip (which again is A LOT more expensive than visa + plane ticket) which for example can very often mean you have a criminal record.
That's VERY different than say cubans using boats to reach the USA when they had no legal way to enter the USA.
Can we discuss this stuff in proper threads though?
I let it go for a while then people kept piling up on that and referencing me and my claim out of context repeatedly so even if this is the wrong thread to discuss it i feel like i have a right to clarify what is being said inappropriately about me and my claims.
Then i hope people move discussing where it's proper, but if they don't it's not on me, is it?
Start a new thread?
A and B will never both get what they want at the same time though. I would say they are polarized on healthcare and education.
I don't think A and B are incompatible in a democracy. I do believe that a society bouncing back and forth between something close to A and something close to B would be highly inefficient.
Health care is a battleship, and the cost to turn a battleship is very high. Beyond that, I don't feel competent to comment on economic questions such as which sort of health care system delivers the best health care to the most people at the lowest net cost, while still encouraging an adequate level of innovation.
I have views on whether a society should provide a baseline level of medical care to all people, but that's more of a moral question than a economic one imo.
Go ahead, Luciom
Here or wherever, if you want to bump an immigration thread or make a new one. Fair is fair that you can address claims.
I don't think this is the proper thread to discuss claims about immigration in general, and in particular a specific claim i made about immigration by boat in Italy in recent years.
OK. Agreed.
Keep in mind for example that it's a crime to immigrate by boat the way they do it while it is not a crime to overstay a visa in Italy. It is more expensive to come by boat (and far more risky) than coming as a tourist and overstay your visa.
So if you choose the boat path (for Italy, these days) anyway you are self-selected a lot (for extremely negative traits) vs a random person from your country and especially vs someone from your same country that comes as a tourist or student or whatever and then overstays.
It means you have no legal way to get a visa even if you have the money for the boat trip (which again is A LOT more expensive than visa + plane ticket) which for example can very often mean you have a criminal record.
That's VERY different than say cubans using boats to reach the USA when they had no legal way to enter the USA.
???
I don't think A and B are incompatible in a democracy. I do believe that a society bouncing back and forth between something close to A and something close to B would be highly inefficient.
Health care is a battleship, and the cost to turn a battleship is very high.
Whatever the answer might be, it's not necessarily the same for all countries which is a main point of contention when the USA are compared to other countries.
The innovation (in processes, in drugs, in medical technology in general) that say Estonia needs is absolutely 0. Like Estonia could build an healthcare system that guarantees not a single innovation would ever happen in Estonia in the sector automatically and still lose nothing by doing it, because even if Estonia was great at innovating healthcare comparatively, it's contribution worldwide to healthcare innovation would be insignificant anyway because of size.
So they can and should completly disregard innovation in their assessment, while the USA can't. Fact is, if the USA does develop a system where innovation is well rewarded, all the rest of the world can piggyback on that and create systems with very different incentives that can cost far less with the same health outcome on citizens.
Which... is exactly what happens. European innovators do innovate because they make money in the USA and the same drug/tech is then sold at lower prices in the EU lol. Sometimes at FAR lower prices.
I mean as long as american taxpayers (through medicare/medicaid/subsidized obamacare plans) and consumers in general (out of pocket or insured) are willing to heavily subsidize all the rest of the world included rich countries...
Rickroll,
Why would street vendors bother me? I love freedom.
I've been to Europe three times. One time in Rome a bunch of Romani kids did try to pick my pockets. I was prepared for that though and had nothing in them.
I love Italian food but when in Rome and you want a change the place to go is the area where the umbrellas/etc come from. Also seriously considered buying a house there so spent a fair of bit time wandering about.
Never occured to me that it was so dangerous. Maybe coming from London with all our no go zones toughens you up
Some of this is right, some of it wrong. I'd spell it out, but I'm withholding the details because they'll be in my screenplay. You'll have to wait for the movie.
You must write as well as Sorkin because a movie about a group of political posters splitting off from a poker forum sounds like a worse premise than the story of creating Facebook.
Rickroll,
Why would street vendors bother me? I love freedom.
I've been to Europe three times. One time in Rome a bunch of Romani kids did try to pick my pockets. I was prepared for that though and had nothing in them.
Happened to me in Milan and I tried to fight them but there were too many.
You must write as well as Sorkin because a movie about a group of political posters splitting off from a poker forum sounds like a worse premise than the story of creating Facebook.
It's gonna be allegorical or something. There won't be a forum in the movie. It could be as exciting as the 4th Star Wars movie (episode 1 I guess).
I held my stuff in a well closed backpack over my head. My friend and I were hanging out with a fellow traveler from Texas we had met that day. The Texan kept threatening to hit the children. I thought he was behaving badly.
This was in like 1987 when I was about 20.
We were on our way to the Colosseum, which ended up being closed for Wednesday for some reason. We were only on Rome for a day, so we snuck in.
Rickroll,
Why would street vendors bother me? I love freedom.
I've been to Europe three times. One time in Rome a bunch of Romani kids did try to pick my pockets. I was prepared for that though and had nothing in them.
Street vendors destroy the aesthetic of some places, which is a major asset for touristic areas, so they destroy value in a very clear sense when they are allowed in some specific areas where they shouldn't absolutely be.
Elsewhere in dedicated areas they can be an asset.
But it's not an immigration issue, rather a law enforcement one, and a local government choice to let them stay or not
Rickroll,
Why would street vendors bother me? I love freedom.
I've been to Europe three times. One time in Rome a bunch of Romani kids did try to pick my pockets. I was prepared for that though and had nothing in them.
Street vendors putting out bags and stuff on a white sheet isn't just a European phenomenon. It used to be a common sight in NYC, especially in shopping areas like Soho. I don't see it often now for whatever reason.
I held my stuff in a well closed backpack over my head. My friend and I were hanging out with a fellow traveler from Texas we had met that day. The Texan kept threatening to hit the children. I thought he was behaving badly.
This was in like 1987 when I was about 20.
We were on our way to the Colosseum, which ended up being closed for Wednesday for some reason. We were only on Rome for a day, so we snuck in.
How did you sneak into the Colosseum? I think that would be tough to pull off now. And because of damage that some idiots have done to statuary and historical buildings in Italy, I suspect you would be in for quite a hassle if you got caught.
Street vendors putting out bags and stuff on a white sheet isn't just a European phenomenon. It used to be a common sight in NYC, especially in shopping areas like Soho. I don't see it often now for whatever reason.
There are street vendors in LA, and it's controversial, but it's from carts or easy-ups usually. They actually legalized it for the most part just this summer. Angelenos love freedom!
How did you sneak into the Colosseum? I think that would be tough to pull off now,. And because of damage that some idiots have done to statuary and historical buildings in Italy, I suspect you would be in for quite a hassle if you got caught.
Shimmied under a fence that had a big gap. There were guards and we were not exceptionally bold and more or less just took a peek and then high-tailed it.
There are street vendors in LA, and it's controversial, but it's from carts or easy-ups usually. They actually legalized it for the most part just this summer. Angelenos love freedom!
In NYC, street vendors usually were selling cheap knock-offs of fashion brands. If you wanted that sort of thing in NYC, the move used to be to ask to look in the back room of one of the shops on Canal Street. Not sure if that is still the case.
Shimmied under a fence that had a big gap. There were guards and we were not exceptionally bold and more or less just took a peek and then high-tailed it.
LOL. Times have changed. My wife just reminded me that we have a friend who grew up in Versailles (the town) who told us that he and his friends used to sneak onto the palace grounds at night when they were teenagers.
I was in Europe about 14 months ago. Did see some Africans. No problems anywhere at any time. I really can't imagine worrying about Europe. My S-i-L wanted to know what neighborhoods to avoid in Berlin - and like the neighborhood she lives in in LA has more crime, at least homicide, by far than any neighborhood in Berlin.
I was in Europe about 14 months ago. Did see some Africans. No problems anywhere at any time. I really can't imagine worrying about Europe. My S-i-L wanted to know what neighborhoods to avoid in Berlin - and like the neighborhood she lives in in LA has more crime, at least homicide, by far than any neighborhood in Berlin.
Keep in mind that the baseline would be Japan, not LA for us.
In italy our domestic demographic for natives with 4 italian grandparents is almost identical to the Japanese one.
Given street, violent, petty crime is overwhelmingly a phenomenon caused almost exclusively by poor, uneducated, 15-40 men, and in the center north we have basically 0 native (4 grandparents italian) such cases (absolute poverty among native italians in many area of the north is less than 2%, and even that tiny portion is almost exclusively single very elder people or very disabled people), we would have approx 0 actual street crime. In the sense of several days in a city of 500k people with ANY REPORTED STREET CRIME EVENT AT ALL, and like 0 homicides of people that don't live toghether, ZERO criminal gangs controlling ANY area of the entire municipality and so on. Like you don't have even a shoplifter some days in the whole city.
Like, you know, Japan is today.
This was from 2017, japanese police having literally nothing to do and having to find ways to be useful for society and justify their wages
That's also because if you decrease by 1/4 or 1/8 the amount of poor, uneducated, 15-40 men crime drops much more than proportionally because law enforcement (whose numbers don't decrease as much, if at all) can then surgically pick the few remaining criminals and then *you are basically done forever with violent street crime*.
So that's the kind of society we are giving up by not being extremely strict with illegal immigration, and by not filtering legal immigration more, in Italy: a society where crime in the way every other society has experienced in large urban areas in the past, basically disappears.
