Of Course You Know What "Woke" Means
The title for this thread was stolen from the Freddie deBoer blog/article quoted and linked below. I couldn't come up with anything better, so why not. According to Wikipedia: DeBoer identifies himself as a "Marxist of an old-school variety." I don't know anything about him that extends beyond that and the two blog posts I've read. Now, let's get to it.
I could go on. And some will disagree with this or that. But whether you think this is an accurate portrayal of the kind of politics that became dominant in progressive circles in the last 10-12 years, something happened. Something changed. Of course something changed! I find it so, so bizarre that people still insist that nothing much changed in progressive discourse or politics in that time period. Go back and read stuff that was getting published in liberal outlets in 2010 and tell me it’s the same. Come on. Give me a break. Grow up.
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/202304040135...
If you're going to jump into this conversion, please read the the blog post. That way we'll be, at least somewhat, on the same page, and hopefully the conversation won't devolve too much.
In another thread, someone shared that they were planning on voting for Trump (even thought they don't like him) because the Democratic party has shifted so far to the left. Their response was simply dismissed, and someone else pointed out why that's a problem. If you don't think "woke" ideology is driving people into Trumps arms, then you're not thinking clearly. Are those Trump voters misguided? Maybe. But they're not all the morons and monsters they're made out to be. Does "woke"— ambiguously defined — get a bad rap? Sometimes, sure. So, what are your thoughts on "woke"?
Women at the very top of any organization aren't representative of women as a whole.
Anyway it can't be random that it's economically rightwing parties that elevate women to the top much more than leftwing parties.
Thatcher of course but also Benazir Butto in Pakistan, Sonya Gandhi in India, Meloni on Italy.
as with everything else, the right opens the doors and the left closes them
Counterexamples: Christina Fernandez de Kirchner, the new Mexican president Sheinbaum or whatever her name is, Dilma Rouseff....can't think of any others but I'm sure there are at least a couple more.
*Claudia Sheinbaum Pardo
Paul Graham just published the origins of wokeness
https://paulgraham.com/woke.html
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Let's start with the easier problem. Is there a simple, principled way to deal with wokeness? I think there is: to use the customs we already have for dealing with religion. Wokeness is effectively a religion, just with God replaced by protected classes. It's not even the first religion of this kind; Marxism had a similar form, with God replaced by the masses. [15] And we already have well-established customs for dealing with religion within organizations. You can express your own religious identity and explain your beliefs, but you can't call your coworkers infidels if they disagree, or try to ban them from saying things that contradict its doctrines, or insist that the organization adopt yours as its official religion.
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If we have genuine pluralism, I think we'll be safe from future outbreaks of woke intolerance. Wokeness itself won't go away. There will for the foreseeable future continue to be pockets of woke zealots inventing new moral fashions. The key is not to let them treat their fashions as normative. They can change what their coreligionists are allowed to say every few months if they like, but they mustn't be allowed to change what we're allowed to say. [17]
