What's so terrible about Communism ?
I think capitalism as a primary mode of societal organization has served humanity well historically. The positive reinforcement associated with personal enrichment has supported a great deal of benefit to humanity.
But survival does not accrete to the strongest, survival is a virtue of being adaptable to changing circumstances.
We live in a world in which their is no regulatory jurisdiction related to the toxic outputs of industrial society. Carbon dioxide, microplastics, PFAS, etc .... are all polluting the globally shared environment and capitalism is anti-regulatory. We are destined to suffocate in our own toxic outputs if we can't regulate the shared environment. It seems communism (at least pertaining to the environment) is the only form of government which can provide the necessary regulation.
Conspiracy theories about climate change are interesting to me because they are widely believed but they make no sense. Even most dumb conspiracy theories, like the moon landing was faked, at least has a respectable motive like we were trying to intimidate the Russians.
Here you are saying climate/environment decline science and regulatory regime is just a way to "control society". To what end? Do you think Leftists or environmentalists don't like modern conveniences? What does some leftist get o
+1
It’s obviously true but want make sure you get I’m not always an adversary.
It’s just your take at Russia that makes appalled.
"All the MAGAtards think everyone in this forum is a commie or marxists. Hahaha, what whackos!".
*regular poster makes thread espousing the benefits of communism*
Based on the foundational ideals of our country, I honestly think anyone actively pushing for communism in any form should be expelled from the U.S.A. or put into a camp....I'm serious (even making an internet post about it). Zero tolerance for commies. McCarthy didn't go hard enough.
Communism is just a form of secular humanism who's morals are inherently subjective and always in a state of flux. The result of which always ends in the genocide of millions.
"All the MAGAtards think everyone in this forum is a commie or marxists. Hahaha, what whackos!".
*regular poster makes thread espousing the benefits of communism*
Free speech absolutists balk at the free exchange of ideas. Cool.
I don't exactly see much advocating for communism ITT but you don't really care about that so whats the point.
I find internet communists fascinating, because I honestly can't wrap my head around what that world looks like.
They currently live in the most prosperous country on the plane,t which embraces the secularism and hedonism they strive for, and to them it's still too religious and not totalitarian enough. Their own lives are miserable so they seek to destroy the happiness of others. Especially those with conservative values.
Free speech absolutists balk at the free exchange of ideas. Cool.
I don't exactly see much advocating for communism ITT but you don't really care about that so whats the point.
Advocating for communism is literally the point of the thread. This isn't a "free speech" issue. To me it's no different than ISIS starting a thread advocating and recruiting for their movement. It's a direct threat to our country. Communism has already started to destroy Europe. In Romania (and EU nation) they literally just banned the party that won from running. They're pushing to do the same in Germany and other countries. And they did it here by trying to put Trump in prison on "felonies" that literally didn't exist.
Advocating for communism is literally the point of the thread. This isn't a "free speech" issue. To me it's no different than ISIS starting a thread advocating and recruiting for their movement. It's a direct threat to our country. Communism has already started to destroy Europe. In Romania (and EU nation) they literally just banned the party that won from running. They're pushing to do the same in Germany and other countries. And they did it here by trying to put Trump in prison on "felonies" t
And the response to the thread has not been advocating for communism lololol.
You are so deep in the kool-aid equivocating any of those talking points with communism.
"All the MAGAtards think everyone in this forum is a commie or marxists. Hahaha, what whackos!".
*regular poster makes thread espousing the benefits of communism*
Based on the foundational ideals of our country, I honestly think anyone actively pushing for communism in any form should be expelled from the U.S.A. or put into a camp....I'm serious (even making an internet post about it). Zero tolerance for commies. McCarthy didn't go hard enough.
Communism is just a form of secular humanism who's mor
Judging by current Republican standards and rhetoric most of our grandparents+ were commies lol They elected fdr 4x and he was insanely popular for real not this 46% **** 😀
And they fight extremely hard against communist too , the irony …
TL;DR
Wolverines!
Conspiracy theories about climate change are interesting to me because they are widely believed but they make no sense. Even most dumb conspiracy theories, like the moon landing was faked, at least has a respectable motive like we were trying to intimidate the Russians.
Here you are saying climate/environment decline science and regulatory regime is just a way to "control society". To what end? Do you think Leftists or environmentalists don't like modern conveniences? What does some leftist get o
I do believe most leftist are honest in their deep concern about the "climate crisis". Most of the time its not totally dishonest. I think a lot of the grift comes in exaggeration by those in power. The conspiracy theorists are going to do what they do. My conspiracy-lite take is that politicians etc will use the "crisis" to accumulate and distribute power. The same way any leader ranging from dictator to Justin Trudeau invoking an emergency act to take extra ordinary measures when there is little to no justification or its otherwise illegal
I think the realistic picture is just that the left will use this "crisis" to accumulate, control, and distribute power. In Canada they're crushing the economy. In other places they're talking about only electric by 2030. There's currently a carbon tax in Canada. IIRC Canada makes up like 2% of global pollution. The energy sector has been hamstrung by the left. The economy is terrible. The benefit to the "climate crisis" is non existent based on the 2% alone. Then you factor in the world will just go elsewhere for dirtier energy instead. It's likely a negative impact on the environment. Non of this makes sense which is why it's easy flip to conspiracy. Germany did a bunch of amazingly stupid things for the environment that completely failed in every way possible. These are modern first world countries. Why? Because they're idiots, but more accurately ideologues that can't actually get a grip on sensible reality
Can you imagine trump using his southern border every way possible to gain power? Like forget if his point is real or not. Would he exaggerate? Would he use fear tactics? Propaganda? etc. Why wouldn't the left do the exact same **** with a crisis like the environment entering some sort of death spiral? Because they're morally superior and above all that?
I do believe most leftist are honest in their deep concern about the "climate crisis". Most of the time its not totally dishonest. I think a lot of the grift comes in exaggeration by those in power. The conspiracy theorists are going to do what they do. My conspiracy-lite take is that politicians etc will use the "crisis" to accumulate and distribute power. The same way any leader ranging from dictator to Justin Trudeau invoking an emergency act to take extra ordinary measures when there is litt
?
Canada economy is ok .
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp-...
https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/gdp
No idea what u talking about …
Might be hard for some people but then again it’s always hard for some people .
"All the MAGAtards think everyone in this forum is a commie or marxists. Hahaha, what whackos!".
*regular poster makes thread espousing the benefits of communism*
Based on the foundational ideals of our country, I honestly think anyone actively pushing for communism in any form should be expelled from the U.S.A. or put into a camp....I'm serious (even making an internet post about it). Zero tolerance for commies. McCarthy didn't go hard enough.
Communism is just a form of secular humanism who's mor
Ah yes, espousing hatred for totalitarian communism while advocating putting people in camps and deporting them despite them having citizenship.
It’s funny because I think communism is disgusting too but clearly your stance on that is purely incidental, as you show the exact same hatred of free society as they do.
Hashtag Wolverines!
Advocating for communism is literally the point of the thread. This isn't a "free speech" issue. To me it's no different than ISIS starting a thread advocating and recruiting for their movement. It's a direct threat to our country. Communism has already started to destroy Europe. In Romania (and EU nation) they literally just banned the party that won from running. They're pushing to do the same in Germany and other countries. And they did it here by trying to put Trump in prison on "felonies" t
lmao communists hate Biden you absolute buffoon
We're 5 pages into this thread and I still haven't seen anyone from the capitalist religion offer up a solution to the accumulation of deadly environmental toxins in the environment.
Yawn .... keep deflecting you selfish people.
Simple .
Reduce debt and increase the value of currencies .
But very few wants that .
Fwiw China is a communist state right ?
Are they helping that much the environment?
Simple lesson in logic here. Your conclusion in the OP was as follows:
I think capitalism as a primary mode of societal organization has served humanity well historically. The positive reinforcement associated with personal enrichment has supported a great deal of benefit to humanity.
But survival does not accrete to the strongest, survival is a virtue of being adaptable to changing circumstances.
We live in a world in which their is no regulatory jurisdiction related to the toxic outputs of industrial society. Carbon dioxide, microplastics, PFAS, etc .... are all
Basically
If capitalism is not able to prevent environmental catastrophe, then communism is the only form of government which can provide the necessary regulation. (P->Q)
We are attacking the notion that communism can provide for the necessary regulation to prevent environmental collapse due to the historical failures of communist countries to that end.
If you want us to make a positive case for capitalism and the environment, I would point to the aerosol bans that helped us repair parts of the ozone layer, the various sanitation and health improvements of the 19th and 20th century, the introduction of environmental regulations to prevent major dumping, pollution, etc. There is a framework for how these things can be accomplished under capitalism.
There are certainly possible worlds where we fail to attain those contingencies, but that doesn’t mean there is even an inferential case that we would be better off under a communist system, as we have seen how such systems suppress truth that disagrees with Marxist ideology (see: Lysenkoism).
unlike yourself, I can oppose Nazis in all countries. its called being consistent. liberals dont need to worry about such trivial things as coherency and consistency so they are able to effortlessly support standing ovations for SS officers in Canada, billions of weapons to neo-Nazis in Ukraine, and concentration camps in Palestine while still thinking they are the good guys.
I've never read any condemnation of Russian neo nazi battalions by you or saw you acknowledge that Russia was using nazi battalions eight years before Putin's denazification excuse to justify his aggressive full on invasion of Ukraine.
Simple lesson in logic here. Your conclusion in the OP was as follows:
Basically
If capitalism is not able to prevent environmental catastrophe, then communism is the only form of government which can provide the necessary regulation. (P->Q)
We are attacking the notion that communism can provide for the necessary regulation to prevent environmental collapse due to the historical failures of communist countries to that end.
If you want us to make a positive case for capitalism and the environment, I
Solving the aerosol problem and solving the climate problem are not parallel challenges.
Solving the climate problem involves significant economic degrowth. The processes which create carbon dioxide and methane emissions are integral to our capitalist system. Capitalism is akin to a religion with religious devotees. But that system is not intelligent enough to recognize the inevitable cliff associated with a finite Earth. You can't grow in perpetuity in a finite world.
Solving the aerosol problem and solving the climate problem are not parallel challenges.
Solving the climate problem involves significant economic degrowth. The processes which create carbon dioxide and methane emissions are integral to our capitalist system. Capitalism is akin to a religion with religious devotees. But that system is not intelligent enough to recognize the inevitable cliff associated with a finite Earth. You can't grow in perpetuity in a finite world.
This is more of an argument in favor of some sort of primitivism than it is an argument in favor of communism.
You can grow approximately in perpetuity in a finite world, because you can manipulate matter and information better and better.
The physical limits can be hit at some times but we are talking many orders of magnitude of gdp per capita from where we are at.
What can't grow in perpetuity is stuff like "steel consumed per person" , but that doesn't need to grow for gdp to grow.
You can make better and better drugs / treatments, with the only limit being reaching the point where the absolute totality of all diseases and illnesses being immediatly curable with a "click".
You can make harness more and more energy and it could be close to infinite as soon as we reach workable fusion.
You can keep making new music, shows, movies and all other forms of entertainment with no actual realistic cap in perpetuity.
You can grow better tasting and healthier food with no actual realistic cap.
And then even if the world is actually finite, you can start exploiting asteroids, other planets, and at some point other solar systems.
The claim that grow can't keep existing because the world is finite is simply objectively false and everyone believing that has a completly ****ed up model of reality and so the totality of his takes related to the economy should be fully discarded
Solving the aerosol problem and solving the climate problem are not parallel challenges.
Solving the climate problem involves significant economic degrowth. The processes which create carbon dioxide and methane emissions are integral to our capitalist system. Capitalism is akin to a religion with religious devotees. But that system is not intelligent enough to recognize the inevitable cliff associated with a finite Earth. You can't grow in perpetuity in a finite world.
I disagree, but now we actually have a contradiction with communism.
Communists say that their program is a building up of material production, not a scaling back. They have all historically been very clear on this point.
There have been attempts to rectify this like ecosocialism, but those have been considered revisionist by classical marxists.
Maybe you don’t want to identify with those historical groups but that makes me wonder what we are even considering as communist now.
I disagree, but now we actually have a contradiction with communism.
Communists say that their program is a building up of material production, not a scaling back. They have all historically been very clear on this point.
There have been attempts to rectify this like ecosocialism, but those have been considered revisionist by classical marxists.
Maybe you don’t want to identify with those historical groups but that makes me wonder what we are even considering as communist now.
Communists SAID that a long ago, they warped into something even worse and even more sinister, the green-red abomination, the "party of Greta", which takes everything that's bad about communism (which is most of it) and add the insane environmental psychotic takes that require material deterioration of our quality of life to be "dealt with".
Communists say that their program is a building up of material production, not a scaling back. They have all historically been very clear on this point.
incredible
