Introduction and Posting Guidelines -- Read this first!

This post was revised by Browser2920 on 1/20/2023 and incorporates wording from previous revisions by well named and tame deuces.

Welcome to the Politics and Society Forum.

Our goal here is to provide a place where members can engage in robust, spirited discussions and debates on current topics in the areas of politics and societal issues in a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We welcome posters with views all across the political spectrum and from a wide variety of social backgrounds. The more diverse the community of posters, the better and more informative the discussions will be.

Moderation and Posting Philosophy: Just be nice; Post in good faith.

How do we achieve our goal? By Being Nice and posting in good faith. It’s really that simple. When discussing a topic and you disagree with another poster’s position, state your alternative position or opinion and the facts you feel support it. Do not attack the poster personally, or use unnecessarily derogatory or demeaning language to make your point. Disagreement need not be disrespectful.

Posting in good faith means posting with a genuine interest in the conversation. You should read and respond to others' posts, not look for ways to attack the poster personally or insert comments that have nothing to do with the current conversation. And assume that the other poster is also posting in good faith. That means giving the poster the benefit of the doubt that he more likely misread or misunderstood your comment than he is deliberately lying or gaslighting you. It’s an internet forum, after all. People are reading and typing on tiny screens, often while doing other things at the same time. Don’t demand or expect a level of precision in wording and writing that you would when conducting a PhD dissertation review. It’s just a damn internet forum.

So skip the insults, and keep the conversation friendly. We want to encourage visitors to join our forum and start posting their own opinions. We can best do that by showing them a welcoming, open and friendly atmosphere. We want to encourage discussion and debate, but not in a Drago to Rocky “I must break you…” approach. On the spectrum of political opinions, there is Right and Left, but rarely Right and Wrong. Watch the tone of your posts. It is easy to misinterpret humor or satire for meanness or ridicule on the internet, so use the emoticons as appropriate so your real intent is communicated, and misunderstandings don’t lead to more insults being exchanged.

The bottom line is you shouldn’t need a thick skin or feel like you are going into battle to participate in a discussion in Politics and Society. If everyone does their part in keeping the tone civil and friendly it will be a better experience for all. Just be nice.

This is a discussion forum, not a debating society.

The best way to effortlessly contribute to the friendly atmosphere of our forum is to approach your comments as having a discussion with others who enjoy talking politics. This is, ultimately, an entertainment venue, not a televised political debate. You will find people who agree with you and those who totally disagree with you. View them as people you are sharing your thoughts with, and they, in turn are sharing theirs. They are not your opponents to be ridiculed and crushed. They just see things differently than you do. Sure, you will end up debating points back and forth. But nothing is at stake; it’s just a way to have an enjoyable time on the internet.

There are no winners or losers in a political discussion. The fact is, almost everyone on this forum is set in their opinions on various topics. No matter how persuasive you think you are, how brilliant your points and counterpoints have been, you will not change the mind of the person you are discussing or debating with. You will never get the satisfaction of having the other person say “man, you were right and I was wrong”. It’s just not going to happen. There will be no satisfying closure for you; no one is going to declare you the winner, declare the other person a loser, and hand you a trophy. If you set that as your goal, and get frustrated if the other side doesn’t concede (we’ve seen how that goes) then your frustration is likely to boil over into increasingly insulting and condescending attacks on the other member. This, in turn, ruins the atmosphere of the forum.

Convince the audience, not the other poster.

So rather than view your back and forth discussions as a heads up battle to be won, with an enemy to be defeated; take a different perspective. Consider the audience for your comments to be all the other readers of the forum, and not the other poster. Design your comments not to personally attack the other participant, but rather to persuade the audience of the validity of your position and why you hold it.

When you adopt this perspective, the feeling that you need to attack the other poster falls away. The audience will not be swayed or appreciate rudeness or insults given in lieu of a sound, logical argument supported by facts and the citation of reliable sources. It eliminates the need for endless loops of “you said this…no I didn’t” bickering. That’s because the audience will see what was said or not said, and make their own call. Just point out a logic fallacy or inconsistent statement once, and then move on. The audience is waiting for additional persuasive points; they are not seeking a resolution to a ”you said…no I didn’t” debate.

With this in mind, approach your posting, and your responses to posts, in a positive manner. What are the proactive approaches you can take to making your argument persuasive to the audience? Counter a logic fallacy with logic; counter misrepresentation with clarification; and counter misunderstanding with rephrasing. And most importantly, counter rudeness with niceness. Your audience of fellow forum members knows that posters resort to rudeness and insults when their logic fails; when they have nothing persuasive left to shoot. When you resist the urge to respond in kind, and keep your remarks focused on the topic at hand, the audience will see and respect that. And our forum will be better for it. 

Help Keep the P&S Forum Nice

The first level of effort in keeping the atmosphere of P&S an inviting one is the posters themselves. Most importantly, don’t make inappropriate posts yourself. Think before you post. Next, help enforce the community’s standards. If you see a post that you feel violates the forum guidelines please use the Report Post function to notify the moderators. Resist the urge to engage the poster and continuing to discuss the violation. That will just clog the thread. Report the post and let the moderator handle it.

Don’t assume a moderator will catch an obvious violation in every thread in real time. There are too many threads for the mods to read each one on a daily basis. The more information you include regarding your rationale for reporting, the more informed and better of a decision we can make with respect to the post or posting pattern in question.

Also, if you have suggestions regarding moderation, please post in the P&S Moderation Discussion Thread. Unless you have an issue you believe needs to be discussed privately, we'd prefer that discussion regarding moderation be discussed in that thread for the sake of transparency and also as a guide for posters on how the guidelines are interpreted.

The Don’t Do This Section

We have a bunch of rules and guidelines, site-wide as well as forum specific, that are oriented towards DON’T DO THIS or DON’T SAY THAT. They are listed in detail in the website rules as well as below in this post. Don’t view those rules as goals to see how far you can go in disrupting our forum before you get bounced; rather view them as things to be avoided as they are counterproductive to achieving our goals of an enjoyable venue to talk politics.

(a) No-content posting. No-content posting is not permitted. Please make sure that your posts contribute positively. Examples of a no content post are “Duh!”; “LOLOLOL” or many of the other memes you may find in other forums on the site (inb4….; about 350). If you are posting a video, twitter or article headline, don’t just post it alone. Provide a comment summarizing the video or giving your take on the topic.

(b) Posts that attack another poster rather than address the issue of the thread. This includes rude, insulting, or snarky comments that add nothing to the discussion but rather seek to ridicule, demean or embarrass another poster. Accusing a poster of lying, gaslighting, trolling or other terms indicating a deliberate bad faith action will be avoided. We will assume posters are posting in good faith unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If you believe this is the case, report the post to the moderators; do not accuse the poster in the thread. Likewise, if you feel you have been unjustly accused of such an action, report the post; after an initial denial of the accusation, do not respond further in the thread.

(c) Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups (such as members of the LGBTQ community or African Americans) with derogatory comments are not allowed.

Specific guidelines for Transgender Topics.

The following guidelines will be enforced on all threads and posts related to transgender topics. It is recognized that some people may have very strong beliefs concerning transgender persons that are diametrically opposed to these guidelines. Nonetheless, the following guidelines are in effect and posters who violate these guidelines will be subject to the same disciplinary procedures as other violators of forum rules and guidelines.

It is the policy of this forum that we support the major Medical Organizations positions that unequivocally state that transgender people are NOT mentally ill, and do not suffer from a mental disorder. The leading reference works for mental disorders, the DSM-5 of the American Psychiatric Association made that clear over 10 years ago, and maintained that position in the recent DSM-5-TR revision. The World Health Organization also moved gender incongruence out of the mental illness category in ICD-11. As more and more research is done, the idea that transgender persons have a mental disorder fades more and more into the past. Therefore, that is not a matter that will be put up for debate in the forum. It will be treated as a given that transgender people do not have any form of mental health disorder or illness.

It is our desire in this forum to provide a welcoming environment for all people to discuss various topics free from personal attacks. There few attacks more personal and harmful and disrespectful than to state that a person has a mental illness when they do not. Therefore any posts or discussions stating such will be deleted, and appropriate action, including banning from the site, will be taken against posters who fail to adhere to these guidelines.

Other prohibited posts include the use of slur terms such as tranny or transformers, among others to refer to either individual posters or transgender persons as a group. Deliberately misgendering transgender people who publicly present themselves as one gender is considered rude and hurtful by many in the transgender community and is strongly discouraged. However, absence certain context, just the act of using the opposite pronoun in the course of a discussion will not in itself result in deletion or other mod actions. However, statements like "fixed your post " while changing she to he, or bolding a pronoun to emphasize that rather than simply making an on topic post will be considered trolling and removed.

The overriding principle in play here is that transgender people exist, are not mentally ill, and have the right to present themselves publicly as they see fit. And as a matter of simple respect that we accord to anyone, there is no place for the deliberate use of other terms to disrespect their gender identity.

There will be some to whom these guidelines will be unacceptable and in conflict with their personal beliefs. And that's fine. There are many other places on the internet where like-minded people gather to share those beliefs with one another. If you can't post on transgender topics without including those beliefs, by all means leave here and go there.

There will be no transgender catch all thread to discuss transgender issues just as we have no catch all threads to discuss other LGBTQ groups. There will be no threads or posts about whether transgender people exist, have mental illness, or deserve to be treated with the same respect as others. Rather, if there are specific issues that affect politics or society, such as participation of transgender people in sports, or issues concerning proposed laws about bathroom use or education curriculum, those are appropriate. But only as the discussion pertains to the thread topic and doesn't devolve back into direct and indirect references to mental illness or if transgenderism is real, or gets filled with anti-transgender slurs.

Though these guidelines are straightforward, if you have any questions about whether a post of yours is within the guidelines I encourage you to check with a mod before posting it.

(d) Extremist views well outside of the mainstream will not be allowed: offensive conspiracy theories, posts that glorify violence, call to arms etc. Do not post-election conspiracy theories without sources. Such posts go in the riggie containment thread. Due to the nature of the current health crisis, we will not allow conspiracy theories surrounding Covid-19 to be propagated, nor will we allow Covid-19 denial or posting that attempts to undermine the severity of the crisis.

*** Posts of the type that suggest certain people involved in recent unrest in the US deserved to be hurt or killed. Insofar as there is any point to talking about "sides" in this regard, these statements have not been limited to one side of the classic political axis. Such posts will not be accepted and this is not up for debate. Frankly, if anyone's political inclination has led them to a point where they think fellow citizens should be hurt / killed in vigilante actions, as targets of political violence or a result of unfortunate confrontations, then the person thinking that should take a deep breath, take a step back and do some serious introspection. Because whatever ideological path that person is on has taken them to a bad place. ***

(e) Critiquing other posters’ posting style. Inserting comments like “yeah, he never provides citations to back him up” into the middle of an ongoing discussion adds nothing and shifts focus from the topic to the poster personally.

(f) Rehashing old arguments in a new thread. Keep comments focused on today’s topic. Bringing up old arguments or positions that don’t affect the discussion today add nothing and shift the focus to the poster rather than the argument. If a poster says today he supports Trump, it doesn’t really matter if he said he didn’t two years ago. Let it go. Bringing up past posts from other threads or forums that don’t apply to the current topic is not allowed. E.g. “you said in NVG 6 months ago…”

What Happens When You’re Not Nice

Most rules violations are simple honest mistakes. Unfortunately, some posters feel compelled to break the rules. When that does happen, here is the general sequence of events related to handling violations of the rules.

Posts that the moderators believe to be minor or accidental violations of the guidelines will be deleted with or without notice to the posters who made them. Time permitting, the moderator may choose to notify the poster to make sure the poster understands why the post was deleted, to reduce future repeat violations. But that is not always possible. So if you open up the forum one day, and go “hey, where did my post go?” most likely it was deleted by a mod for a rules violation. If you know in your heart it was a no content or insulting, snarky post, just roll with it and don’t do it again. But if you have a post deleted, and you really don’t know why, PM a mod and he will explain why it was deleted. There will be no adverse disciplinary actions for these minor corrections. The goal is to educate posters on the standards in P&S, and have everyone willingly follow them, not seek to punish them. However, if a poster continues to make violations of small rules, as captured in the user's mod notes, the cumulative effect can result in an escalation of discipline.

Posts that are egregious violations or that show a willful disregard for the forum guidelines, i.e., the moderators think you're breaking the rules on purpose or that your posts show a pattern of undesirable behavior, will be handled first with an official warning via PM and then with escalating tempbans based on the number of total guidelines violations the poster has made that are egregious or willful.

Posters who continue to post inappropriate things after tempbans will receive a site-wide permanent ban. There is no specific number of tempbans you are allowed before a permanent ban. Depending on the seriousness of the violation, the initial discipline can go straight to temp ban or permanent ban, with no official warning issued. It is decided on a case-by-case basis, taking the posters entire posting history into account.

Note: the record of these violations is captured and retained in moderator user notes; therefore, they will not appear in the public Infractions tab on a user’s profile. Do not assume because you don’t see anything in the infractions box that no actions have been taken.

Bans can be appealed to the higher admins; procedures can be found in the About the Forum Section of the main site. Note that creating an alternate account in order to circumvent a tempban can result in an immediate permaban. Either appeal your ban, or serve it out. Don’t risk a permaban over a week’s tempban.

The Big Finish

If every forum member proactively sets out to discuss their political views in a good faith, friendly and respectful manner, almost all of the issues of about what is a violation and how far can we go will disappear. The focus of the forum should be on interesting and challenging discussions about strongly held political and societal beliefs, not on whether calling someone this name or that reaches the level of a personal insult or is just at the butt hurt level. Many internet forums are battlegrounds where posters compete to see who can be the meanest, most condescending poster of all. This will not be one of those. We strive to provide a place for the exchange of opinions and information about current political events in an environment that everyone enjoys and is comfortable in. It’s up to each of us to help follow and enforce these guidelines so that posters get the maximum value from our forum. A little consideration of others goes a long way. Make sure you reread your posts before hitting the “post reply” button to double check that your post adds something to the discussion in a positive tone.

Just Be Nice.