Of Course You Know What "Woke" Means
The title for this thread was stolen from the Freddie deBoer blog/article quoted and linked below. I couldn't come up with anything better, so why not. According to Wikipedia: DeBoer identifies himself as a "Marxist of an old-school variety." I don't know anything about him that extends beyond that and the two blog posts I've read. Now, let's get to it.
I could go on. And some will disagree with this or that. But whether you think this is an accurate portrayal of the kind of politics that became dominant in progressive circles in the last 10-12 years, something happened. Something changed. Of course something changed! I find it so, so bizarre that people still insist that nothing much changed in progressive discourse or politics in that time period. Go back and read stuff that was getting published in liberal outlets in 2010 and tell me it’s the same. Come on. Give me a break. Grow up.
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/202304040135...
If you're going to jump into this conversion, please read the the blog post. That way we'll be, at least somewhat, on the same page, and hopefully the conversation won't devolve too much.
In another thread, someone shared that they were planning on voting for Trump (even thought they don't like him) because the Democratic party has shifted so far to the left. Their response was simply dismissed, and someone else pointed out why that's a problem. If you don't think "woke" ideology is driving people into Trumps arms, then you're not thinking clearly. Are those Trump voters misguided? Maybe. But they're not all the morons and monsters they're made out to be. Does "woke"— ambiguously defined — get a bad rap? Sometimes, sure. So, what are your thoughts on "woke"?
175 Replies
bourgeois
That dude being himself?
The problem is more w/ what I call, and others have called, "extreme wokism". You want to be woke about some things, but you also have to understand rational boundaries of ideas and theories.
This is my own observations analysis and conjecture on what happened in the last 10 years. It's really more focus on the covid and slightly more post covid years.
During the lockdown period of covid, for the first time, maybe in a lot of people's lives, they had time to really reflect. George Floyd happened, and it set America ablaze a bit, and a lot of people, specifically white liberal people, were looking and seeing things that many of them had never considered before on social media. Things like institutional racism, and racial injustice. Most had heard of these things before, but actually being able to sit w/ these ideas, and contemplate their meaning, "woke" a lot of people up.
Like most people do, instead of getting slowly into the nuances of a problem, they swung completely over to the extreme side of the problem and took up issues they still didn't fully understood, but it made them feel good. This led to a lot of people taking up causes on behalf of marginalized groups, that groups themselves weren't even that upset about. Re-naming the Washington football team is one example that comes to mind.
This fun house mirror effect of lockdowns and seeing most of the world exclusively through social media, temporarily warped a lot of people's perception of the world and their place in it. It led to stupid ideas like Defund the police, men can have babies, etc...
Now that people are back actively and fully engaged in the world again, and not just via their phone only, if you notice, a lot of this has really disappeared, or has become less active in the social conscious.
That's my 2 min summary of what I like to call, "extreme workism".
It doesn't make you feminine necessarily, but it is the absence of masculinity
I don't know if there's official definitions or terminology but that's not how I see it
I think this example should make my point clear (to you at least, the others a fairly hopeless). Womens in general are psychologically more oriented to caretaking and nurturing than men. Especially infants. When an infant cries you give it 100% empathy. Men generally tilt more towards accountability, personal responsibility etc
You don't treat a teenager or an adult the same as you treat an infant. A loser in there moms basement has typically arrived there from what you could call "toxic femininity" which is really toxic empathy, agreeableness, etc. On the flip side shouting at a very young child to "man up" or whatever every time they cry could be called toxic masculinity or a total lack of empathy, or an ******* etc
So men becoming independent, self reliant, a leader, providing, sacrificing, finding and taking their place in the world, climbing ladders/ hierarchies etc is masculine. Sitting in your moms basement getting dopamine hits from sugar, porn, drugs, etc isn't "toxic masculinity" or feminine. It's the absence of masculinity. That's how I view it anyways.
Yeah that's definitely not me. I don't even know who you're talking about but if I ever start caring I guess I could go look in ATF
That's really not what happened in the transgender thread but it's an expected take from the guy parroting the very fine people hoax as of yesterday. and then when confronted about it... crickets. No explanation, correction, sense of embarrassment. Crickets. Such a special one we go here
Wokeism was in full effect prior to covid and i don't think lockdowns played any significant role in it. I think in relationship to wokeism the only things the lockdowns contributed was to open peoples eyes as to how biased and dishonest the media was at a much higher and deeper level
I know what you're saying and was being kind of nit-picky. Without alluding to other posters in this thread, I mostly agree with this. The man-child, more often than not, is a product of the devouring mother; an excess of the maternal instinct. She's overprotective and doesn't set boundaries. There's a lesson about this in The Catcher in the Rye:
"All the kids kept trying to grab for the gold ring, and so was old Phoebe, and I was sort of afraid she'd fall off the goddam horse, but I didn't say anything or do anything. The thing with kids is, if they want to grab the gold ring, you have to let them do it, and not say anything. If they fall off they fall off, but it's bad if you say anything to them."
Your body of work consisted of 99% of your posts being in the trans thread since your “reappearance” in Aprill until it closed. It’s not that hard to go back and see your attempts to recreate the movie dialogue get destroyed by every poster that responded to you. Obviously, there is power in editing to make yourself seem correct that you were unable to recreate in real life. So you kept running away…. It’s okay, I can’t do the parkour like 007 either.
Oh, I see. You define a bunch of traits you see as desirable as "masculinity", which generally have absolutely **** all to do with how it's usually defined (lol@ accountability and personal responsibility being identified with masculinity, for example), laying the groundwork for you claim that your ideological opponents lack it. What a sophisticated argumentation strategy, were you by any chance helped to formulate it by the same person who taught you how to spell?
The masculine is associated with exposure to death, including the most mildest forms such as discomfort. So, yes, willingly taking on responsibility or accountability are masculine moves.
The feminine is associated with protection from death. It protects the comfort zone. The feminine is a virtue when you are either currently in paradise or when you are trying to foster a connection with paradise.
However, the feminine is often an impediment when it’s time to journey toward paradise.
I said, extreme wokeism. As in, yes it existed before, I'm saying that it went into hyperdrive during covid years.... and now... you don't really hear as much about it. I never hear about it in actual encounters w/ people at any level. Just online, and it's mainly a hyper focus of people on the right.
Not quite.
Right. He listed a bunch of traits that have nothing to do with masculinity, and tried to disguise that fact by scattering some legit items in his list (but that nonetheless had nothing to do with his original point about being a nihilistic degenerate of man-child or whatever). Like I said, sophisticated argumentation strategy, I expect it would fool most 10 year olds and probably at least 50% of the posters here.
Hey now, I'm not trying to defend the whole post/conversation but can see what he's getting at. He's half right.
Not as it relates to you but the topic in general.
Didn't know where to post this, but an interesting sm moment. A "Karen" informs some young people that their dog is not allowed in a wild life area. They claim it is a service dog. Most likely this is untrue and it's "emotional support." Notes say, even legitimate service dogs may banned. It's obvious, I think, that it's not worth disrupting wild life even with seeing eye dogs.
The post was intended to own the Karen, but users seem to side with the Karen. Many saying, we need some Karens and it should be OK to call attention to rule breakers when appropriate.
https://twitter.com/ImMeme0/status/18601...
This is a broader pattern too.
Some people are dealt a bad hand in life and when society correctly gives them special consideration, low character people try to glom on and get that special treatment and attention.
It's very difficult to criticize the glomers because if you accidentally critisize a real bad hand recipient, you look like a villain and feel very guilty.
I’m not sure how a dog on a leash disrupts the wildlife. Sadly to many folks also claim their animals are service animals .
Always curious was the first Karen named Karen and that’s why we call those folks Karen’s
lol at caring about "wildlife" imho, but every place will make it's own rules.
as for the Karens, if the rules are morally appropriate be a Karen, if they aren't don't, and if you think all rules are morally appropriate you are German and not a normal person outside Germany (or German speaking Switzerland).
how to figure out if they are morally appropriate: there is no fixed rule you should tap into the local morality which can change a lot place to place.
but in general "mind your own business unless it's something that directly and significantly affects you or your family and friends" is a good rule to live life.
you can choose to be a moralizing warrior out in the wild but if you do accept the consequences
I hate the term. It just gives people a green light to be mean. Anyway, the real dick move was posting this on social media.
I think the first Karen was named Kate.
Dudes whine about wearing condoms
Get outta here lmao
Dudes whining about wearing condoms are more representative of what a man is in your mind? Why?
More or less *gestures around*
Then, when someone says “act like a man” or “man up”, in your mind they are saying to be more like the whiner dudes than like the person who holds himself accountable and takes responsibility?
I would never encourage anyone to act like a man, given how men typically behave.
Do you think he sees it? Really? This has to be a troll post! It must be.