Professional Cycling 2023 - No Country for Old Men

That sounds absolutely awful

by Viggorous k

It's not about the time but the watt/kg effort, as far as I understand. Here's a link to an article:

https://lanternerouge.com/2024/07/14/greatest-climbing-performances-of-all-time-on-plateau-de-beille-tour-de-france-2024-stage-15/

Lanterne Rouge

Greatest Climbing Performances Of All-Time on Plateau de Beille | Tour de France 2024 Stage 15 - Lanterne Rouge

- which actually also states that Vingegaard's performance is the second greatest climbing performance of all time - after Pogacar.

I can’t profess to understanding all of the science but it does feel rather too coincidental for both of them to have registered such performances on the same day (and for atmospheric conditions not to have played a part)

But then, the distances between the top individual finishers were quite marked and show what a gruelling stage and huge test it was

Always laugh when casuals bring up absolute climbing times and compare it to 20 years ago to say "look they're going faster than the doped ones, they must be doped!"

I'd love to see how often the best and the second best climber of the peloton went full push at the bottom of the Plateau-De-Beille if we want to compare those numbers

Jonas now paying $7.25! Get amongst it. Certainly seems better odds than Pog at $1.08

I will be heartbroken if Pog falls apart from here after yesterday

VingeGOAT would need a pretty major Pog implosion. Possible? Sure. But long odds.

I know that not having Kuss is a big factor, but it's still shocking how mediocre the Visma team is.

interesting/relevant comments from Pog in relation to our discussion

Pogacar has dominated professional cycling in 2024, winning one‑day Classics, short-stage races and also the Giro in May. As he seeks to complete a Giro-Tour double his peers, including Vingegaard, have been left floundering in his wake.

“Cycling is evolving so much,” Pogacar said. “Six years ago, when I came to this team, it was totally different. If I compare this year to my first year, it was almost amateur. Back then I thought everything was professional, but we’ve moved on really fast.”

Pogacar, established in the yellow jersey since stage four and winner of three mountain stages, is *detonating the Tour’s records for stratospheric performances. The pace set by the Slovenian and his team has been hard on lesser mortals in the peloton.

The French veteran Romain Bardet, the first maillot jaune of the 2024 race and now 1hr 42min behind the race leader, said: “The first two or three riders are in another universe, the level is just incredible.”

Pogacar suggested the *growing rivalry between his team and *Vingegaard’s Visma Lease-a-bike squad was fuelling innovation. “Every team is pushing each other, with technology, with nutrition, with training plans, with altitude camps. We push each other to reach new limits.”

Like others, Pogacar also cited technological advancement as a key reason for higher speeds. “The bikes now are so much faster, especially the tyres. They make the biggest dif*ference from what we had six, 10 years ago. The wheels, the aerodynamics, the frames – it’s just amazing how different the bike is now compared to five years ago.”

looking at the three remaining mountain stages to predict Jonas' approach

the obvious attack stage is Friday, which has two HC climbs and is by far the highest altitude day, albeit the really high mountain, the 24km climb of la Bonette at 2800m is the penultimate climb and 60km from the end of the stage (which finishes with a cat 1 after a 40km descent).

today's stage is interesting too though - 3 climbs in the final 33km and you'd think that Jonas might try to attack before the final climb...albeit they aren't long climbs and maybe actually suit Pog more

so my guess is that Jonas will try today but that his sights are set on Friday when he will have to attack hard and very early.

Saturday has 3 cat 1 and 1 cat 2 climbs and is up or down each day, but my guess is that not much time will be won or lost on that day, although of course if Jonas takes back time before then he will need to attack again then

I agree with you.

Today has Pogacar written all over it, a steep but not super hard penultimate climb with bonus seconds at the top followed by a descent is basically the perfect cocktail for Pogacar, and I'd be surprised if he doesn't go for it today. At the same time Jumbo may want to exert some pressure to try to make it a harder race, they can go fairly hard today and still be ready for Friday.

I agree Friday is when Visma need to go all out, the high altitudes and gruelling day has to be where they make their move. They'll probably also try Saturday depending on how Friday goes, and Saturday could easily be decisive, especially if Friday was extremely hard for both of them.

a Pog attack yesterday that even Pog agreed was ridiculous.

that's why we love him though

Friday will be fun! It's live in the middle of the night here in Australia, but I'm considering staying up and watching it vs watching the extended highlights the next morning

I'm sure Jonas would prefer the biggest mountain to be at the end of the stage and not 60km before the end, but he gets his chance. I assume he and Jumbo will attack early rather than wait for the final climb, but we'll see

I'm very concerned for Vingegaard tomorrow. It's supposed to be Vingegaard-day, but yday he had an off-day, and today he didn't do a cool down spin after the stage (as he always does) and went straight to the bus, his team citing tiredness and the warmth.

I'm worried he may be paying the price for the suboptimal preparation, the question is how high it will be.

it wasn’t a good sign that he couldn’t match Pog on penultimate climb. It looked like Remco was the stronger of the two of them too. I only watched the highlight show but it seemed Pog made a mistake staying with that other rider on the descent and maybe he could have stayed away if he went harder?

But I will not allow myself to count him out. He has been so incredible the past two years physically and mentally, particularly in the final weeks and Friday’s stage is really a good match for him vs Pog. You are right that of course his prep has been bad and he came into this underdone, but….he is still Jonas so we will see. And Tadej hasn’t had a blow up yet and this is the worst stage for him in terms of altitude

Don’t forget that a collapsed lung is not normally considered a good omen when needing to chase someone down in high altitude, regardless of how much you’ve enjoyed high altitudes in the past. I don’t even think I was supposed to go that high for a year after.

Really surprised how hard UAE are going here

At least the race for the stage will be interesting. Can’t see GC being too exciting now. Perhaps a Remco attack.

UAE is going for the stage, which indicates Pogacar is feeling great.

Seems Jorgenson has been given the freedom to go for the stage win, which indicates that Vingegaard does not feel good.

I think Jonas might lose minutes today, he's not looking great right now

Jonas is very much riding for 2nd.

Frustrating day as a viewer and VLAB fan. Pog simply too dominant and sucks all the fun out of it.

Remco should have just let Landa do all the work, not sure what he was achieving by pulling all climb with Jonas in his wheel and Landa 20sec behind

Save some energy and go for a fun long attack tomorrow

Pog simply too good. That last climb was incredibly impressive. And I love that he continues to attack and go for stage wins. I wonder if he’ll try to win Saturday as well? And you’d think he’d be a contender for the tt over Remco, although maybe there are some non GC riders who haven’t exerted themselves as much in the mountains?

Huge props to Jonas though. The intestinal fortitude he’s showing to get to the line and then compete to the end is admirable

And Remco is fulfilling the promise. I don’t think he can catch Jonas but maybe he tries to attack tomorrow?

There just are not enough words to describe how good Pogacar is. He just flies uphill. Jorgensen was riding at a good tempo, opened an impressive gap on Carapaz and Simon Yates but as soon as Pog decides to go, forget it.

Chapeau Pogacar, he has been untouchable this year. I already pray we get a fully fit Jonas and Pogi (and Remco) next year to see this duel when all are at their best - although this "new" Pogacar looks frighteningly strong.

I think we'll have a break today, but I expect Pogi to win the TT, due to the climbing metres.

And immense credit to Jonas, he has done incredibly well given the circumstances. The fact that us Jonas fans could remain somewhat hopeful until yesterday, is a testament to how good he has been. But he has gotten worse as the Tour progressed - a very similar trajectory as Pogi last year. The lack of a proper foundation hits hard in the third week, even for superhumans.

Hats off to Remco as well, he has impressed me very, very much. I was not expecting him to be so "close" to the top 2. It bodes well for the future.

Agreed with Remco, he answered every question I had. Bossed the TT (expected him to be competitive ofc but not better than both Pog & Jonas), faded the gravel trap and looked competitive there, nothing silly on the flat stages and he never looked worse than the 3rd best climber on all climbs.

The only regret is that he's such a fun rider and watch him do a smart/defensive race is a bit of a shame so I hope we see him soon in a spot where he's part of a more attacking dynamic

I know he's said he won't ride the Vuelta but it would be cool to see Pogacar go for the triple this year.

Has anyone ever won all 3 in the same season?

I just checked and it looks like the answer is No. Merckx and Roche won two Grand Tours and World Champs in same year but no one has ever won all 3