LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

Yeah even as a prospect, he was only really comparable to Kareem and Lebron (or the two greatest players ever) and so far he seems to be exceeding his first-year expectations, which is completely insane given how high the expectations are. I mean at this point, if he ends up somewhere around KD at his peak, I guess a lot of people would consider that a huge disappointment?

It's not just that he's a physical freak, but he seems to be a physical freak that learns everything really fast. It's very Lebron-esque how one of the best physical specimens of his generation is also blessed with so much more than just physical abilities.

Players are already scared to shoot when Wemby is near them, so he's affecting the game even when he doesn't get actual blocks (the Bill Russell effect).

Spurs are 23rd in defense and below-average in rebounding so again, he's a lightweight that can't wear anyone out physically like Embiid or Jokic or traditional centers.

A few highlight blocks don't mean much for a lightweight that isn't wearing out opposing defenses otherwise such as leaning on guys, banging for rebounds, or via go-to offense that forces adjustments and shifting defenses.. And aside from a dozen or so shot-blockers in history, individual defenders have never been the primary drivers of great team defensive performance anyway.. Long-standing chemistry and culture of effort are the primary drivers of a great team defense, as the 23' Nuggets showed in the Finals with their goat-level defensive performance despite not having any great defenders, or the 90's Bulls showed by improving each time they lost a great defender - this includes 94' (lost MJ), 95' (lost Horace), and 98' (lost Pippen) - yet the team defense improved each time (#1 defense in 98' before pippen returned in game 36).. So chemistry and effort allowed the 90's Bulls or 23' Nuggets to play great defense, not individual defenders.. There are a few exceptions to this but we're talking a couple dozen of the greatest shotblockers in history otherwise the aforementioned theory holds, aka chemistry/effort are the primary drivers of great team defensive performance, while great individual defenders - especially perimeter defenders - are a tertiary drivers.

So there are many ways to create a great team defense and having any 1 defender normally doesn't guarantee a great defense.. The Bulls only had the 7th, 4th, and 7th ranked defenses during their 1st three-peat and this included inferior defensive ranking to 4 of 6 opponents in the ECF and Finals from 91-93'.. This is part of the reason why Pippen is so overrated because his strength (defense) is a tertiary factor in a great team defense (there are many ways to achieve a great team defense, namely long-standing chemistry & culture of effort) - so his defense is an overrated part of his all-time ranking, while his offense included the worst bricklaying and efficiency ever, such as the worst shooting splits ever for any playoff run of 15 games and 35 MPG (96' and 98' title runs).. He was statistically-carried in every series by MJ in a way that no other 2nd option has been.

Here's a more practical example about Wemby regarding his ability to win the attrition battle.. If he knew how to get great position/angles so he can drop-step upon the catch (like any good traditional big man can do), his defender would have to expend more energy to defend against drop-steps and these kinds of positional advantages that allow easy shots/footwork upon the catch - the defender would do this by using various types of defensive "deny" positions and using his weight more.. This requires great energy for a defender, which would take away from their offense (lose attrition battle).. Unfortunately, Wemby currently cannot apply more pressure than he faces at this point in his career.. But if he learns to rain down jumpers then he'll have opposing teams tearing their hair out adjusting while also allowing his own team to really move the ball - it's a snowball effect that wears out defenses, which blunts their offense.. If he wants a masterclass on how to get the right position to drop-step upon the catch, he should watch Dwight from the 09' ECF (one of the 10 biggest underdogs to ever win a playoff series).

fallguy,

Have you ever considered taking all of your posts and sending them to an NBA Franchise? You seem like you could be a top executive for a successful franchise.

thanks for the kudos or troll

the secret was to start Lebron at point guard to avoid the 2-point guard lineups that occur when he starts at forward - these 2-point guard lineups yield chemistry issues and lower teammate hold-time or assists compared to 1 point guard lineups (lower team assist capacity).

vogel instantly won a title this way and there were no "need more help" narratives that year.. unfortunately, the following year we saw schroeder start every game and they went back to the underachieving 2-point guard approach..

He's 20 bruh.

Just enjoy the game instead of turning every post into an MJ worshipping wall of text.

I wonder what Jordan would say if he read fallguy’s posts.

Would he appreciate his dedication?

Or laugh his ass off at all the time wasted copy pasta �� all over the internet.

That seems a pretty radical over-reaction. Wemby to lead the league in blocks every year? I bet against. Wemby to surpass Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, etc. in NBA accomplishment or even remotely approach them? I bet against. The idea that he could possibly blow past those three in 10 seasons? That's half of KAJ and LeBron's career. I bet against. He certainly is not an efficient scorer yet, as say, Zion was right from his rookie year. His defending of Embiid in the low post was comical. His 3 point shooting from Europe to here is 29-30%.

He's certainly having a great rookie year. I'm most encouraged by his durability, and FT% so far. We know he has to get rebounds and block shots if he is on the floor, and granted both stats are north of expected. We know his combination of height and skillz ... no surprises there. To parlay that potential into 15 or 20 years of great production is something else entirely. His stats this year are scary similar to his last year in Europe.

So in order to objectively blow past MJ, KAJ, LeBron, over the next 15 years or so he will average 30+ points, 15 rebounds, lead the league in blocks, score much more efficiently, spearhead titles, etc. How much of that is going to happen? We aren't talking about highlight reels here or freaky plays made. We are talking about producing the greatest seasons in history over and over and over and over. So far, he has zero of these type seasons, zero superstar seasons. He is getting one star season under his belt.

It's called hyperbole.

Don't take it so seriously.

That said, Wemby is clearly talented enough to have non-zero GOAT equity, and that's something you say once every 15-20 years.

https://x.com/Rome_Beast/status/17542393...

LeBron out there living his best life putting in the work that earns you 20 straight All NBAs

You’re right, I’m totally jealous.

In fact, I’m getting ready to pounce: I’m going to talk about how happy I am while simultaneously accusing fallguy of having psychological trauma with respect to his mother and father. Because as we all know that’s totally a mentally healthy thing to do for someone who is “happy”, “employed”, and “sane” and is definitely not projection when the person who is doing it starts accusing other people of being jealous.

Speaking of which, how is life candybar? Ever find a job or are you still spending most of your time attacking people on the internet? If not, you could start asking about and attacking fallguy’s employment history as well because that seems to be the best use of your time (being unemployable and all) since I stopped entertaining your petty nonsense. ALSO a totally mentally healthy thing to do. Definitely not jealousy. Definitely not projection. Either way, best of luck to you.

And also, what is with all these accusations towards fallguy of copy/pasting arguments all over the internet? How many LeBron James fan forums are you guys actually on (i.e. in order to even see these “copypastas” you must be reading all these other forums and defending LeBron/attacking MJ in your spare time, right)?

Meanwhile, you guys are over here attacking fallguy and telling him he’s wasting his life away. Maybe you all should go look in a mirror? (and go outside afterwards. There is more to life than loving LeBron and hating on MJ across dozens of Internet forums)

As a PSA, this is what projection looks like:

Would it make you mad to know that your internet opponents are successful in life? If not, why would you even think this? For that matter, why does it matter which side of the argument they are on?

Clearly we're all just jealous. Imagine how mad we would all be if you posted some clips too. Do you have world class skills and a girlfriend that can record clips like twog?

Do you at least concede that he's looking more like a superstar than a serviceable oddity?

Btw, it's interesting to me that you associate "attacking people on the internet" with issues finding a job. Why is that? You certainly spend a lot of time attacking people on the internet. Was there a point in your life where you struggled with this? It's a weird generic insult to use rather indiscriminately unless this has some personal meaning. I suggest instead that you use details that the posters themselves provide and/or use your own powers of observation to come up with the appropriate insults.

I said he has one half of a star type season under his belt. Yeah, that's considerably north of serviceable oddity and south of superstar.

Imho wemby is just a reflection on how kareem was perceive in his college career vs his opponent and in the nba .
Same with wilt .
The expectation are obviously high .
To me nothing unheard of , wemby got the tools but Let’s see how it goes .
Shaq was a specimen too but he underachieve .

I just happened to notice you’ve dug real deep into questions about multiple people’s employment history when you’re mad and having arguments about totally unrelated things. I’ve known a couple other people that do that and in both other cases they actually couldn’t hold down a job, like at all. They were intellectual frauds and their employers saw through their bs at some point.

Just putting two and two together is all. I’m sure you’re super successful and were legitimately wondering about fallguy’s work history for…. Wait why did you want to know about fallguy’s work history candybar?

No, candypants. The actual scientific definition of projection used by psychologists is when you attribute your own feelings onto a different person or object.

Me pointing out that it’s cool and interesting that fallguy has had a successful career and also appears to have had a reasonably successful athletic background is actually the opposite of jealousy. Using like, the English language definition of jealousy. If you weren’t a raging dumbass you’d have understood that in the first 5 seconds of reading my post.

You, however, weirdly and creepily asking about his relationship with his parents is almost certainly projection because it’s, well, really ****ing weird and that’s the only thing that makes sense.

I am not in fact a 6’7 wing and I have not played basketball much since I blew out my knee in college, but I have actually played competitively in the past. You can probably tell because I don’t attack people’s relationships with their mom and dad on the internet and I talk facts about basketball instead. But again, I’m sure you’re super successful and just have a thing with asking people about their work histories as that’s totally normal lol.

Shaq underachieved?

Yes. Should have been in the GOAT discussion. Instead he's "just" Top 10.

I'm sure Kobe is an unbiased narrator on Shaq's career.

I'm going to struggle with the "underachieved" label for someone with 4 rings, 14 All NBA nods and a peak stretch as good as Shaq managed. Dude played 21 years in the league, and 16 of those were unambiguously good at a minimum. The extent to which he was lazy is surely overblown?

Well, giving him 2 extra years in the league is a good start...

Shaq was the most dominate player I ever saw. He should have 5+ MVPs, 6+ chips but he didn't because he was lazy.