LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)
Very impressed with the minute sequence where LeBron clearly lost the ball headed to the rim, heat got the ball anyway and scored, then he elbows his defender in the chin, drawing a defensive foul and stern talking to from the official and hitting a 3.
It's these ref assisted 5 point swings in close games that truly bring out the best in great players.
Link to post of why Elon Musk is the true GOAT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
The thread that will go on for years..........
vs.
LeBron - bad
Grant Hill - good
You know Grant Hill was a poor man's LeBron?
I love how fallguy forgets about every year outside two for prime Kobe when he was the number 1 option (2005 to 2013). 2 chips in 9 years. Mostly winning?
Shouldn’t Ray Allen and Reggie Miller be above guys like Russell and Wilt? Being expert jump shooters and all.
Maybe you should have guys like Damian Lillard and Kyle Korver round out your top 10 to complete your thesis? Seems your jump shooter analytics methodology is a little inconsistent when you have guys like Kareem and Shaq in there.
Obviously, a mid-tier talent like Korver cannot match an all-time talent of Lebron or Oscar, so these ball-dominators are still above jumpshooters like Korver or Ray Allen - but for the most talented jumpshooters ever, whose raw talent is more comparable to Lebron/Oscar/Magic such as Bird, MJ, Curry or Kobe - these jumpshooters will be far superior by virtue of having more comparable talent plus far greater, more effective, more winning skillset, as agreed upon earlier on this page (and restated below).. 😀
That's why all my posts say "the best" jumpshooters ever are better than the best bigs ever, who are better than the best ball-dominators ever - that's how the top 10 is ranked - it's in order of the skillsets that produce the best chemistry to produce the best teams and win with the least, aka the rosters they were given (organically).. Accordingly, the top of the rankings show highly-assisted skillsets that allow the best ball movement and chemistry, such as jumpshooters and bigs, followed by the lower-assisted and lower-chemistry skillsets of ball-domination.
Accordingly, we agreed on the following synopsis: "The clear-cut leading scorer and "go-to" player for the Lakers was Shaq until 2004, so the point about highly-assisted players leading all the dynasties is correct - Shaq led the Lakers for the early ‘00’s, not Kobe, and his highly-assisted game allowed assist opportunities for teammates, great ball movement and a dynasty.
And to piggy-back this synopsis that we agreed upon, we can substitute AD for Shaq in that synopsis and change the year to 2020, correct??.. And since Shaq and Kobe were actually equal-scoring partners in 01' and 02' with Kobe leading the way against the Spurs both years, this is similar to Kyrie being equal-scoring partner and "closer" on the 2016 run, correct??
Again, Hill isn't the best 20 ppg point guard - Magic is.... Magic was the best low-scoring PG ever out of Penny, Stockton, Hill, Nash, Haliburton, etc... So Magic is the guy to compare to the best high-scoring ball-dominator (Lebron), and I have Magic over Lebron in my rankings.. Again, only high-scoring ball-dominators have been shown to significantly reduce teammates' assists, because they're the only skillset with a high volume of unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing around in spot-up roles.
Everything in my rankings adds up under scrutiny because the rankings were built under scrutiny.
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I love how fallguy forgets about every year outside two for prime Kobe when he was the number 1 option (2005 to 2013). 2 chips in 9 years. Mostly winning?
Lebron has a couple chips in 2016 and 2020 that are like Kobe's in 01' and 02' where they had equal-scoring partners - Kobe was equal-scoring partner and closer in 01' and 02', just like Lebron co-led the scoring with a teammate for 2 title runs, except he WASN'T the closer like Kobe was.. Kobe was also 1st option against the Spurs in 01' and 02', which is similar to AD being the man vs Jokic and the Nuggets in 2020.
And again, Kobe 3-peated with Shaq, while Lebron had perennial losers with AD, Love/Kyrie, and Wade/Bosh (goat choke and record loss).. So why would anyone think he could 3-peat with an in-out big and a fellow perennial loser like Shaq??? It's absurd - they would lose catastrophically just like every team Lebron ever had.
Accordingly, we agreed on the following synopsis: "The clear-cut leading scorer and "go-to" player for the Lakers was Shaq until 2004, so the point about highly-assisted players leading all the dynasties is correct - Shaq led the Lakers for the early ‘00’s, not Kobe, and his highly-assisted game allowed assist opportunities for teammates, great ball movement and a dynasty.
You said Shaq was bad earlier and Kobe was the reason the Lakers won. Shaq was highly assisted because he’s a high scoring center under Phil Jackson in the triangle offense and was the focal point of the offense.
This proves that having good players that can pass and receive passes in an offense that facilitates this leads to good teams. Putting Kobe Bryant onto the 2019 Rockets isn’t going to magically turn them into a high assist team.
Also I dunno about your Kyle Korver comment. He is one of the greatest jump shooters ever and Bill Russell wasn’t that great of an offensive player period, let alone an elite jump shooter. Shouldn’t it be much easier to have highly assisted zippy ball movement with Korver, therefore facilitating a dynasty and thus Korver should be ranked higher?
Contrast your last post with this. Did Shaq get carried by Kobe the elite highly assisted jump shooter, or was Shaq the clear cut leading scorer and go to player for the Lakers?
Accordingly, we agreed on the following synopsis: "The clear-cut leading scorer and "go-to" player for the Lakers was Shaq until 2004, so the point about highly-assisted players leading all the dynasties is correct - Shaq led the Lakers for the early ‘00’s, not Kobe, and his highly-assisted game allowed assist opportunities for teammates, great ball movement and a dynasty.
Sounds like team makeup and offensive strategy employed by the coach is the difference here. Remember how you said Shaq couldn’t win with Orlando? But he turned into a highly assisted player under Phil and won 3 straight? Looks like as an elite player, he adapted his game to Phil Jackson’s offense.
Well guess what my entire point has been re: James Harden and LeBron James? Checkmate homie.
Thread Cliffs:
Turns out fallguy has agreed with us this entire time and understands that elite players like Shaq can and do adapt their offensive games to specific high ball movement offenses. He just got really hung up on the fact Kobe Bryant had a high assisted fg% because he played under Phil Jackson. But now he gets it that James Harden and/or LeBron James would have adapted to the offense as well and been highly successful.
Good thread fallguy. Time to hang up the sneakers.
Lebron has a couple chips in 2016 and 2020 that are like Kobe's in 01' and 02' where they had equal-scoring partners - Kobe was equal-scoring partner and closer in 01' and 02', just like Lebron co-led the scoring with a teammate for 2 title runs, except he WASN'T the closer like Kobe was.. Kobe was also 1st option against the Spurs in 01' and 02', which is similar to AD being the man vs Jokic and the Nuggets in 2020.
And again, Kobe 3-peated with Shaq, while Lebron had perennial losers with AD, L
Shaq > AD, Love/Kyrie, and Wade/Bosh combined.
Kobe closing...
Imagine how you'd react if LeBron had those numbers? It would be on your 3 monthly rotation to post.
Kobe has a great resume. Good for somewhere between 10 and 20 on the all time list. For some reason you don't judge him on the same standard as everyone else.
You said Shaq was bad earlier and Kobe was the reason the Lakers won. Shaq was highly assisted because he’s a high scoring center under Phil Jackson in the triangle offense and was the focal point of the offense.
This proves that having good players that can pass and receive passes in an offense that facilitates this leads to good teams. Putting Kobe Bryant onto the 2019 Rockets isn’t going to magically turn them into a high assist team.
Also I dunno about your Kyle Korver comment. He is one of th
Shaq was highly-assisted in Orlando - all centers are highly-assisted, and the highest volume players on any team must be highly-assisted (bigs or jumpshooters) to have dynasty capability.
And we can estimate how much the Rockets' assists would increase by replacing Harden's 36 ppg with 2006 Kobe's.
Harden was assisted on 14% of his shots, versus 45% for Kobe, and they both made 11 and 12 field goals per game, respectively.. So Harden was assisted on only 1 or 2 of those, versus 5 or 6 for Kobe, so that's an increase of 4 to 5 assists per game for the Rockets.. This would catapult them from 28th in the league to top 10.
But more importantly, Kobe has the healthy assisted rate required for a team to have the capacity to develop dynasty chemistry and ball movement.. By comparison, the unassisted buckets of Lebron and Harden impose spot-up roles to pad their stats - pundits mistake this "heliocentric" approach to the game as a GOOD thing, smh... lol.... It's great if the team still wins with this approach, but if not, then the brand needs more help - it's normally the latter (weak brand needs more help).
Essentially, a player cannot ONLY have all-time stats - they must achieve those stats in a way that facilitates ball movement and great brand of ball, which ultimately means having a healthy assisted rate like Shaq did... And Kobe was a 1b with equal shot volume, so his assisted rate mattered just as much... If Kobe was a massive ball-dominator with low assisted rate like Lebron, then those Lakers couldn't have run the triangle because it would've been "kobe-ball" instead - Phil would not get hired or his triangle would've failed like it did in New York and anywhere else it was tried... Those Lakers would have the same weak ball movement and chemistry that Lebron's teams are plagued with every year, which requires more help... But the problem is that this brand has weak chemistry with EVERY cast, so it's a perennial loser regardless of cast (21 years + Luka's career too, and Oscar before Kareem).
Btw, Korver doesn't take enough shots - he can't be 1st option on any team... Otoh, Russell was better offensively than most people realize as the 1st option on several title teams..
Sounds like team makeup and offensive strategy employed by the coach is the difference here. Remember how you said Shaq couldn’t win with Orlando? But he turned into a highly assisted player under Phil and won 3 straight? Looks like as an elite player, he adapted his game to Phil Jackson’s offense.
Well guess what my entire point has been re: James Harden and LeBron James? Checkmate homie.
The triangle only needs a goat scorer at the 2 guard that has a healthy assisted skillset (goat volume of jumpshooting).
The big man doesn't matter.. It could be Shaq, Pau, or no one (Longley, Cartwright).
Contrast your last post with this. Did Shaq get carried by Kobe the elite highly assisted jump shooter, or was Shaq the clear cut leading scorer and go to player for the Lakers?
They carried each other but Kobe always carried the burden in clutch-time.
more importantly, BOTH were required to have healthy assisted skillsets because if one of them only had a ball-dominant, low-assisted skillset, than it would've been just "bron-ball" (or "kobe-ball" in this case) and not a great ball movement or chemistry team..
A dynasty requires it's leader or co-leaders that have healthy assisted skillsets. .... If the leader or one of the co-leaders has low-assisted skillsets, then this means there's a high volume of unassisted shots that leave teammates standing around in spot-up roles.. This would mean the triangle or a ball movement offense cannot be run - you can only run one or the other - it's either ball movement of ball-domination, not both.. It's either bron-ball, or the triangle.
Thread Cliffs:
Turns out fallguy has agreed with us this entire time and understands that elite players like Shaq can and do adapt their offensive games to specific high ball movement offenses.
All centers play similarly in that they have high assisted rates - Shaq's dunks have always been highly-assisted just like Kareem's sky hook, or Duncan's jump hook.
So Shaq has played the same way ever since he entered the league, but the difference was that he eventually joined the goat shooting guard, as required to win with the triangle.. Again, the center can be anyone, such as Longley, Cartwright, Pau or Shaq - the only requirement is the goat shooting guard.
Harden and/or LeBron James would have adapted to the offense as well and been highly successful.
Various elementary things such as bball 101, the eye test, and many stats confirm that Luka, Lebron, and Harden have primary ball-handler skillsets that score a lot of unassisted buckets (low assisted rates), which confirms that they couldn't play in the triangle because the triangle DOESN'T HAVE ANY PRIMARY BALLHANDLERS/LOW ASSISTED RATES - that skillset isn't used in the triangle and isn't a part of the triangle.
Ultimately, low-assisted skillsets cannot play in the triangle and there's never been a high-scoring, low-assisted player in ANY ball movement system.
Ultimately, guys like Luka, Lebron, Harden and Westbrook are primary ball-handlers and low-assisted players and this high volume of unassisted buckets leaves teammates standing around in spot-up roles, which lowers their assists and prevents ball movement offenses used by the Nuggets, Spurs, Warriors, Mavs and Magic (all the teams that beat Lebron) - the common thread in ALL of lebron's playoff losses for the last 10 years is deficits in team assist (usually massive deficits).. The weaker brand of ball is due to Lebron's inherently suboptimal skillset of abnormal ball-dominance, which imposes spot-up roles/weak chemistry.
Btw, low-scoring point guards like Magic, Penny, KJ, or other "low-scoring" point guards (only 20 ppg) were BETTER than today's high-scoring point guards like Lebron, SGA, Westbrook or Lillard.. The reason for this is that the low-scoring point guards weren't just spamming high PNR or "down-hill", simpleton basketball - they're actually running a 5-man offense and doing much more than "looking for theirs" with excessive live-dribbling like today's high-scoring, ball-dominators... Again, previous eras understood that excessive ball-domination was bad, so there were no high-scoring ball-dominators, and more low-scoring/high-assist guys like Stockton, Magic, KJ, etc.
Shaq > AD, Love/Kyrie, and Wade/Bosh combined.
Kobe closing...
Imagine how you'd react if LeBron had those numbers? It would be on your 3 monthly rotation to post.
Kobe has a great resume. Good for somewhere between 10 and 20 on the all time list. For some reason you don't judge him on the same standard as everyone else.
^^^ Those are 1-on-5 stats at the end of series where the defense has zeroed in on 1 man that is defeating max defensive attention (carrying the scoring load on the championship level, which Lebron never did)
Lebron never faced this level of attention because his skillset didn't command double-teams and he always had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention... Yet his clutch-time efficiency is the same as Kobe's, while Lebron is the only guy with the large sample of futility on Finals game-winners (0-7).
Many people don't realize that rim attackers and stiff-arm skillsets can be met at the rim with multiple defenders, so the only skills that require overt double-teams on the perimeter are hot jumpshooters, such as high-volume jumpshooters with good efficiency... The best jumpshooters based on volume/efficiency are Curry, Kobe, and MJ, who faced the most double-teams... These guys can CONSISTENTLY get hot and go on mini-personal runs that put teams down 6, 8, or 10 quickly... Coaches are forced to protect against these spurts or even larger ones (especially in clutch-time) by having effective double-teaming schemes, thereby giving the scorer another dimension of game-control that "passers" and more one-dimensional scorers like Lebron or Kidd do not possess..
Of course the commanding of double-teams and additional rotations wins the attrition battle by wearing down the defense, thereby leaving them less capacity for offense.. Otoh, Lebron doesn't get doubled and his ball-domination lets a defense rest, so they have maximum capacity to get hot offensively and blow the doors off of Lebron's team by record amount and record upsetS.
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If he was playing 1 on 5 maybe he should've passed the ball instead of chucking bricks?
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Jeff Van Gundy:
"We had a hard time rebounding the ball when we were double-teaming Jordan"
So itt we learn that the best jumpshooters increase everyone's assists AND offensive rebounds!!!!!!!... #goatshavesubstance
If he was playing 1 on 5 maybe he should've passed the ball instead of chucking bricks?
See that's why Kobe might be better than Jordan, Lebron and basically anyone - he didn't need playmaking help - he didn't need a "pippen" to get 5 assists, nor did he need playmakers that averaged more assists than Pippen like Kyrie, Wade, Rondo or Westbrook.
Kobe won every title with no playmaking help and he led the Lakers in assists each time.
In addition to having the elite dribbling ability AND off-ball game so that he didn't need playmaking help (which MJ had too, but he just happened to have Pippen), Kobe's expert jumpshooting skill was always getting "hot", so he commanded double teams, which destroy the opponent's defensive rebounding (see Van Gundy's insight above)... So you guys are giving Rodman props for getting offensive rebounds, but his man is off doubling Jordan and GIVING Rodman the rebounds!!
So itt we learn that the best jumpshooters increase everyone's assists AND offensive rebounds!!!!!!!... #goatshavesubstance
If he was playing 1 on 5 maybe he should've passed the ball instead of chucking bricks?
Furthermore, Kobe didn't have the luxury of passing because he didn't have elite scoring help like Lebron had, and therefore had to carry the scoring load (face maximum defensive attention).. It was 1 on 5 by the end of the series, so Kobe got the critical assists that included the series-clincher to Ron Artest/Metta World Peace (after getting doubled).
So you're misguided about Kobe on every level.. In addition to Kobe getting the critical assists when needed, he actually carried his team's passing load - he carried the scoring and passing load .. And this shows that 5-6 assists is sufficient to get the critical dimes when needed without MONOPOLIZING and hogging the assists, which imposes spot-up roles and weak chemistry/teams.
So the more we look into it, the more we see how Kobe was superior to Lebron at the game of basketball.
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Kobe's ability to win without any playmaking help and no "pippen" to get 5 APG, shows that Pippen wasn't needed and is just as bad as I say he is - this should be obvious given that he was mostly a dunker with the lowest peak capability of any notable 90's sidekick (wasn't on scouting reports), which forced MJ to carry the scoring load (defeat max defensive attention)... Pippen was the goat lane-clogger with worst-ever shooting splits for 3 title runs (93', 96', 98').
Ultimately, Pippen was never an elite producer and "franchise player" that was asked to build a team from scratch - he was handed the keys to the most well-oiled machine ever in 94', so it wasn't remotely surprising that once opponents woke up in the playoffs, Pippen was exposed and the "real" Bulls were borderline .500 in 95' before MJ returned... It's intuitive that any team with Pippen as the best scorer will fall out of contention QUICKLY due to lack of talent, even a 3-peat dynasty as we saw in 95'.
Pippen was mostly a dunker in the Derrick Jones mold, except he got 4 years to learn a role in a system that yielded 15-20 ppg.. Otherwise, he was worse than Jeff Green outside this system by averaging 14 ppg on 43% in 1989 and 1999 - the Houston debacle of 14 ppg was just a few months after averaging 20 in the system for the Bulls... History shows that Pippen never played above a Larry Nance or peak Iguodala level, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade..
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Jokic explaining how the international format is requires quicker thinking, which ultimately builds superior basketball instinct and superior players):
Gilbert Arenas and Antawn Jamison explaining how modern players have worst-ever fundamentals:
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92' Jordan.......... MVP... FMVP.... #3 DPOY... scoring champ............. 35/6/6 on 50% in PO
13' Lebron......... MVP... FMVP.... #2 DPOY... no scoring champ'....... 26/8/7 on 49% in PO (7-point game)
Jordan was even better in 93' and was 2nd for DPOY that year, but he got robbed of MVP by Barkley..
MJ was also robbed of MVP in 87', 89', 90' and 97'.... And he was robbed of DPOY in 87' - it's absurd that a SG with half the steals and blocks won DPOY (Cooper) over the first guy ever to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season (MJ).
Fallguy,
I don’t think anything you wrote above addresses anything I said previously, but anyway:
How high do you have Ray Allen all-time? Maybe the second greatest jump shooter ever behind Steph Curry. Capable of very high volume; peaked at 26.4 ppg. High TS add which indicates both elite volume and efficiency. Incredibly athletic in his 20’s.
But to reiterate: all of the above and he is very clearly a superior jump shooter to both Jordan and Kobe. Probably second all time.
I don’t recall you having him in your top 10 but given that jump shooters are by default better than LeBron, Shaq, Harden, etc. shouldn’t Ray Allen be like top 5? Maybe even top 3. Hell, given how important jump shooting is and how hard you’ve argued for it the past x number of years: maybe even arguably #2?
Actually wait, how the heck do you not have Steph Curry above Jordan and Kobe if you’re ranking by non-ball dominant jump shooting efficiency and volume? Curry blows both of them out of the water in that regard.
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Regular Seasonhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html'...... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 tsBasketball-Reference.comJeff Hornacek Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.comhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html.................. 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 17.0 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 tsBasketball-Reference.comKlay Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Playoffshttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html'...... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 tsBasketball-Reference.comJeff Hornacek Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.comhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html.................. 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.5 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 tsBasketball-Reference.comKlay Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Is Curry about to get #5 by having Buddy Hield play the "Klay" role, just like anyone could've played the "Pippen" role, such as Andre Kirelenko, Larry Nance, Iguoudala, Eddie Jones or Bobby Jones?.. This was Pippen's caliber, and the numbers show this exactly.
THE BEST MID-RANGE SHOOTING VOLUME/EFFICIENCY IN FINALS HISTORY
All your posts were specifically addressed at the bottom of the previous page.. I'll repost the main response after this post.
How high do you have Ray Allen all-time? Maybe the second greatest jump shooter ever behind Steph Curry. Capable of very high volume; peaked at 26.4 ppg. High TS add which indicates both elite volume and efficiency. Incredibly athletic in his 20’s.
But to reiterate: all of the above and he is very clearly a superior jump shooter to both Jordan and Kobe. Probably second all time.
I don’t recall you having him in your top 10 but given that jump shooters are by default better than LeBron
Again, Lebron is better than Ray Allen just based on the talent differential alone, which is too great to be offset by brand of ball - that's why only the BEST jumpshooters are better than the best ball-dominators - I don't expect mid-level talents to be better than the top talents of a different skillset, so only the top talents from each skillset can be compared.
Heck, Ray Allen had many chances with GREAT casts to win a weak East, but it took talents like Iverson, Lebron, Kidd or Dwight, aka guys that could carry teams.. But Ray wasn't even as dominant as Reggie Miller, who destroys him based on all stats and also deep runs with little or no all-star help.... So Ray simply wasn't as good as you're thinking - he was nowhere near Curry or MJ/Kobe, who are the goat jumpshooters on threes and two's, respectively..
Actually wait, how the heck do you not have Steph Curry above Jordan and Kobe if you’re ranking by non-ball dominant jump shooting efficiency and volume? Curry blows both of them out of the water in that regard.
Curry isn't necessarily better as a "jumpshooter" because he doesn't even have a turnaround jumper, while MJ's was literally the goat turnaround, while also being the goat pull-up 2-point jumpshooter... Curry's jumpshooting volume was also half of MJ/Kobe, so he wasn't closing as many possessions positively as they were, while his assisted buckets are one-dimensional compared to theirs - their attack has infinite diversity, so they can wear out defenses in any fashion, including bombing away like Curry if needed....
Look at Jordan's mid-range numbers in the 91' Finals (shown above) - the best we've ever seen.. Curry and Ray Allen aren't comparable to this - only Kobe could even get in the vicinity.. Keep in mind that Jordan was playing goat defense by guarding Magic for 2/3 of the possessions in the series (shown above), so Jordan's had goat efficiency on jumpshots despite having the wear and tear of carrying the goat defensive load as well - so imagine if his already-goat jumper was unencumbered by getting easy defensive assignments like the matadors Curry or Allen get
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Thread Cliffs,
Turns out fallguy has agreed with us this entire time and understands that elite players like Shaq can and do adapt their offensive game and turn into a highly-assisted player for specific high ball movement offenses.
Wrong... All centers play similarly in that they have high assisted rates - Shaq's dunks have always been highly-assisted just like Kareem's sky hook, or Duncan's jump hook.
So Shaq has played the same way ever since he entered the league, but the difference was that he eventually joined the goat shooting guard, as required to win with the triangle.. Again, the center can be anyone, such as Pau, Shaq, or no one (Longley, Cartwright)... The only requirement is the goat shooting guard.
Harden and/or LeBron James would have adapted to the offense as well and been highly successful.
Various elementary things such as bball 101, the eye test, and many stats confirm that Luka, Lebron, and Harden have primary ball-handler skillsets that score a lot of unassisted buckets (low assisted rates), which confirms that they couldn't play in the triangle because the triangle doesn't have any primary ballhandlers/low assisted rates - that skillset isn't used in the triangle and isn't a part of the triangle.
Low-assisted skillsets simply can't play in the triangle and there's never been a high-scoring, low-assisted player in ANY ball movement system.
Ball movement systems clash with the skillsets of Luka, Lebron, and Harden, since their skillsets entail high volumes of unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing around in spot-up roles.. These spot-up roles lowers their assists and prevents the ball movement offenses used by the 90's Bulls, or the recent Nuggets, Spurs, Warriors, Mavs and Magic (all the teams that beat Lebron)... The common thread in ALL of lebron's playoff losses for the last 10 years is deficits in team assists (usually massive deficits).. Ultimately, Lebron's imposition of spot-up roles prevents developing teammates and elite chemistry needed to win with the roster he was given (organically), thereby needing ready-made stars.
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Btw, Wemby was overhyped and overrated as I stated years ago.
He's probably a better version of Shawn Bradley but probably not as good as Yao and maybe even peak Rik Smits.. This kid cannot dominate the post and never will. Let that sink in.. So how can he be great offensively at 7'5"?? ... He can't because he'll never shoot or handle like John Salmons or even Caitlin, let alone MJ
