LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

Steph will never be traded by the Warriors unless he outright demands out, which I don't see him doing at this point. Maybe next year if they're clearly out of it again. But it would still surprise me.

How many times have you posted this exact paragraph, word for word, on the internet?

Thread, I'm setting the o/u at 57.

Which he will demand out if the team is awful. Unless they can rebuild somehow fast then Steph won't
want to stick around on a bad team.

At this point it's clear fallguy is a chatgpt trained bot

How many times do you think I've been told that Lebron left Cleveland because he never got his pippen? ... Way more than 57 times

This would include 1-9

This would include the times when people sing Pippen's praises and think MJ wouldn't win earlier and easier with someone else in Pippen's place...

Since I've been told "1-9" about 7,057 times by zombies under the hypnosis of Klutch Sports, I point out that the winning spotlight inflated Pippen to media accolade such as undeserved All-NBA, which he only received after he had a title just like other carried sidekicks (klay, pau, many more).

Aside from undeserved media accolade (winning spotlight), Pippen was no actual performance that demonstrates he's an all-timer - there's no seminal series where he took over or had all-timer performance.. He was always carried statistically by Jordan with low peak capability (not on scouting report according to Shaq).. He was a transition dunker that was nothing outside a system that coddled weak iso players and that he grew up in.. I imagine Klay or Dray are similar to this.

If Pippen was drafted to another team like the 88' Lakers or Pistons, he would be buried on the bench behind many veterans and he would also be in spot-up role alongside Magic/Isiah instead of developing as a ball-handler... So he's very lucky to get minutes on a crappy Bulls team as a ball-handler, alongside a generational athlete to develop in his image.. And also a system that coddled weak iso players.. This was a once-in-a-million situation for Pippen and if he was drafted to another team, he would've ended up like his 89' or 99' version (outside the system) and basically like Horace's brother Harvey Grant that no one ever heard of but was a decent player..

Regardless the stats tell the story - every notable sidekick in the 90's was infact a "1b" - they had elite 1st option capability and dominated the conference finals to lead their team to the Finals.. Porter played better than Damian Lillard ever did in that uniform during the 92' WCF to carry the Blazers to the Finals... Ditto Stockton in the 97' WCF, or KJ in the 90', 94', and 95' Playoffs (dominating Magic and Hakeem).. Worthy averaged 30 on 62% in the 87' WCF and other series.. Even X-Man carried the 87' Sonics to the WCF and averaged 25/9/4 against the Lakers before dominating Pippen in the 92' ECSF.. Payton and Kemp took turns leading the Sonics depending on the series and dominated Pippen in the Finals.

So Pippen was "just another guy" compared to other notable sidekicks and he was the only sidekick that was more of a transition dunker - he wasn't capable of elite stats or leading a team to the conference finals or Finals.. Among notable 90's sidekicks, he had the worst passing, efficiency, clutch or peak capability (not on scouting report according to Shaq).

LeWholesome

LeBron never met his dad.
Jordan's gambling addiction *allegedly* got his dad killed.
LeBron won it for ****ing CLEVELAND.
Jordan QUIT to go play lol baseball and never made it anywhere CLOSE to the major leagues.

I know who's my GOAT at the end of the day.

Completely out of ****ing line.

I wonder what’s more impressive
Lebron for Cleveland or kawhi for Toronto .
Both vs the warriors …

LeBron beat a fully healthy squad.
Kawhi didn’t.

/discussion

And don’t say Draymond didn’t play G7 blah blah blah because that wasn’t due to injury. It was due to him being a hot headed moron with zero self control.

U saying raptors was a better team than Cleveland ?
Yeah well about KD missing , he wasn’t there when lebron beat the warriors anyway …..

Ps: curry was so bad when lebron beat them many suspect an injury .

Fwiw I think it was more amazing the US lost an nba title outside of the US in Toronto with only 25 years of existence then Cleveland winning with the “goat” shrug .

Hope kawhi wins with the clippers .
Supposedly winning 3 titles with 3 different team is amazing while being the final mvp too .

Allegedly* winning 3 titles etc

Jordan won it for ****ing CHICAGO....

6 times

Chick Hearn:

"What were the Bulls before MJ got there?.. Cows?"

.202 batting average in double A is quite good for someone that hadn't played baseball since junior high - this was absolutely on track for the major leagues, as Terry Francona says here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLSJC9qe...

Lebron didn't have to prove himself to get generational wealth because he got 100 million to set up his future generations before he ever played an NBA game, aka zero pressure..

How am I wrong?

Otoh, Jordan had to prove that was literally the best hooper ever before he got generational wealth to set up his future generations.. So Jordan had it much tougher.

Btw, once-in-a-thousand-years athleticism overcomes no father.. For example, I had a good relationship with my Dad, but he would agree that it would've been better for me to have no relationship with him and have once-in-a-thousand years athleticism instead to be a billionaire and historic figure.

So Lebron overcame nothing - his athleticism got him moved in with the community leader at 10 years old - he was coddled and eating steak every night ever since.. then he was given 100 million before he played a single game to eliminate all pressure - then he was allowed to choose opposing franchise players to play with to guarantee a resume.. the guy is a literal joke to anyone that knows the game
.

Curry's skillset had an all-time offense with just Klay, while Lebron had Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love but never had an all-time offense - he never even had a #1 offense in a single season.

Since Curry's skillset allows coaches to run all-time offenses with less help, any coach should prefer Curry... How does this not make Curry objectively better at basketball than Lebron?.. Winning more with less by having a better brand of ball/skillset - that's what Curry did

Of course the same logic applies to Jordan - his skillset allowed all-time offenses with less offensive help than Lebron, just like Curry..

And we know that Lebron had more help because his titles required 2 all-star teammates, or a teammate to lead him in scoring for the title run (AD).. So Lebron had way more help than MJ, while facing inferior talent because Curry/Klay < Shaq/Penny or Malone/Stockton... Ditto Duncan/Parker

Why do you care so much?

Do you have like, any real hobbies?

How did you end up where you are then? Maybe your relationship with your mom is to blame?

Not junior high - MJ played high school baseball. His batting average also understates his struggles - he hit 202/290/266 and was probably the worst full-time hitter in the league. It was impressive in a way but lots of top high school prospects would hit just as well or better if you put them in AA out of high school, without the benefit of being fully physically developed as MJ was at 31.

Francona was also being polite (what does he gain from badmouthing MJ?) and basing this on who MJ is (which we already know!) rather than stats. If before the season, you were to ask a baseball insider on what MJ would've had to hit in order to be a 50/50 shot at being a productive major league player, I'm sure most of them would've said something better than 202/290/266 as a 31-year old. It was impressive in a way, but still disappointing for such a remarkable athlete.

Let's flip this around - if a GOAT-level athlete in another sport signs with a G-League team at age 31 and is one of the worst players in the g league (but looks decent otherwise), how would you rate this player's chances of being a significant contributor at the NBA level?

No one said this but obviously the Raptors without Kawhi were far better than the Cavs without Lebron. The Raptors were 59-23 the season before Kawhi and lost in the eastern conference semis. They were 53-19 the season after Kawhi and lost in the eastern conference semis. They had worse winning percentage the year they had Kawhi compared to the season before or after. While Kawhi was extremely important to their championship run, this was a great team even without Kawhi.

The Cavs were a lottery team before Lebron and a lottery team after Lebron. And a lottery team with Lebron sitting on the bench while he was there. Note that I don't even have to specify which Cavs stint.

The fact that you literally have no idea here and haven't even begun to consider these extremely basic facts speaks volumes

Candybar putting on a CLINIC!!!!

Sign me up for your MASTERCLASS!

and the cavs with lebron were far better then raptors without kawhi .
And cavs with lebron was better then toronto with kawhi
so what ?
they basically faced the same team and raptors won too.
there u go with the "greatest team ever" the cavs beat.
Didnt take much more then kawhi and a good base team to beat them.
Not even needed the "goat" to beat them.

Btw preseason cavs were like +280 to win the nba while toronto was at +1850 lol.

cavs being a lotery before or after lebron blabla means nothing on what i was saying ...
im not arguing kawhi was better then lebron but nice try.

The fact u invent narrative as always just speaks volume.

Basically the same team? Somehow a 57-25 team missing an MVP caliber player in KD is the same team as a 73-9 team? The Raptors literally had a better record the season before without Kawhi. And that was with KD, who played just 12 minutes in the Finals. Also, as you could clearly see the next two seasons, the Warriors were physically simply not the same after 5 straight Finals.

Much more than Kawhi and a good base team? A 59-win team is a ridiculously overpowered supporting cast for an MVP-caliber player. I don't believe Lebron ever had a supporting cast that could win 50 games without him (even replacing him with a league-average ish player) and a gap between a 50-win tam and a 59-team is massive. I guess MJ consistently had that type of supporting cast, so to you it might seem normal.

Do you really not understand how team sports work?

I'm curious how you navigate the challenges of daily life with this kind of mental aptitude. I'm sure it's a comedy of errors.

This reminds me: Lebron's durability in light of his consistent postseason success is quite remarkable. 8 straight Finals without missing a single game is just silly given his overall load and importance to the team on both ends of the floor.

MJ famously talked about how completely exhausted he was after the three-peat and literally all of Lebron's "star" teammates broke down in light of their consistent postseason success. Which also reminds me of the other iron man, Scottie Pippen, who, despite not taking a 2-year break like MJ, played every playoff game. MJ's lack of positional versatility means he's innately less equipped to carry a substandard, injured squad against a top team in the playoffs and given MJ's limitations, it would be ridiculous to overlook the importance of Pippen's consistent availability in MJ's title runs. Likewise, Lebron's ability to carry a supporting cast missing key players to injuries to the Finals should not overlooked.

What you are talking about?

Pippen is an overrated bum who can't score. Mo Williams was much better.

/s