GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
You had to get through the Celtics, Pistons' and Sixers to win the conference, aka toughest conference ever.
The fact that Jordan carried the worst team ever to 4th quarter leads against the best team ever speaks for itself..
It's the equivalent of Lebron carrying the lowly Wizards to 4th quarter leads against the 17' Warriors, and doing it 4 of 6 games.
The 2010 Celtics were grizzled veterans that took Kobe to 7 games and knew how to play, so they knew the game better than Lebron's Cavs, while also simply "sonning" or bullying the Cavs (thus grinding them down mentally) - KG was spoken to the fact that they broke Lebron's team mentally.
However, all of that is LeDance's fault because he never instilled a tough or serious mindset in his team for 7 years, and he was never serious about playing an equitable brand of ball like dynasties do.. Accordingly, the chickens came home to roost by Year 6 and 7... Lebron had a long-standing organic team, but his team wasn't tough enough or mentally-focused enough to beat a bully like the Bad Boys or 2010 Celtics.. They were a mentally-weak team and it started at the top... In contrast to LeDance, Jordan's toughness and mentality had the Bulls READY by years 6 and 7...
It should also be mentioned that Lebron's jumper has always been incredibly broke compared to Jordan's, who was a goat jumpshooter according to KD, and literally everyone.. Jordan was the goat 2-point jumpshooter/clutch player, and it isn't even close.. Accordingly, each guy's clutch results are VASTLY different - Jordan was a highly-efficient, steady-handed assassin (low turnovers), while Lebron was a jittery butterfingers by comparison (high turnover, bricklayer in clutch-time).
Anytime you hear someone say that OKC is "the best-built team", understand that the reason they can build a great defensive roster is because SGA can carry the offense.
His great iso ability and mid-range can defeat max defensive attention (carry scoring load)... Carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, thereby allowing GM's to get the right "others"..
Historically, we see that Curry, MJ, SGA, Kobe and Duncan were perceived to have well-built rosters, and they all carried the scoring load throughout title runs... The team's defensive roster is enabled by the 1st option's ability to carry the offense.
That best built team was the Warriors 2018 Warriors.
Jordan was on a team with a 4 time scoring champ when he couldn't.more than 30 regular season games and couldn't win a single playoff game. We have to talk about that if you think Luka is relevant.
Fallguy thinks winning 30 games and getting swept in the 1st round is better than taking a team to the finals and losing to one if the GOAT teams ever assembled.
Lebron can't carry the scoring load and needs too much scoring help, so he can't build defensive rosters like SGA, Curry, Duncan, MJ, or Kobe (guys that carried the scoring load throughout title runs).
And Lebron has plenty of 1st Round exits, so we can compare apples to apples and compare his 1st Round losses to Jordan's.
When we do this, we see that Lebron lost in the 1st Round with top 5 guys as teammates like AD or Luka, and he was even lottery with AD, or the stacked 2019 team (Caruso, Zubacs, Ingram, Rondo, Kuzma and much more).
Btw, aside from 2007, Lebron never "took" any team to the Finals because it was always a tag-team job with 1 or 2 other franchise players, aka super-teams.. This ridiculous help is why Lebron won most of his titles by barely averaging 25 ppg in the playoffs and Finals, or winning the ECF with barely 22 ppg (14')...
Lebron was also the preseason favorite from 11' to 16' because he had the only "super-team" of 3 franchise players, while everyone else had "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player... So Durant's addition didn't give the Warriors a better roster - they were catching up and still 1 franchise player behind, which is why Nick Wright thought the Cavs would easily win the 17' Finals... Regardless, there's no excuse to lose by record amount with a big 3 - that's unbelievable underachievement and Lebron did it twice.
The one with zero rim protection and fossils on their bench that was down 3-2 to Harden???
Lol
They wouldn't rank in the top 10 of all-time NBA champions
Jordan was on a team with a 4 time scoring champ when he couldn't.more than 30 regular season games and couldn't win a single playoff game. We have to talk about that if you think Luka is relevant.
The only reason that OKC didn't sweep the Lakers in the FIRST round is because Luka carried the Lakers to a high seed.
And of course, Lebron is lottery without Luka or AD anyway.. He was simply gifted a playoff team in these playoffs that he didn't earn - he's been a lottery player since 2019 and only AD or Luka saved him.
Btw, Jordan didn't play in the 86' regular season, and Gervin didn't play in the playoffs.. Do you know anything about the GOAT!!?!?.
Btw, Jordan didn't play in the 86' regular season, and Gervin didn't play in the playoffs.. Do you know anything about the GOAT!!?!?.
You're the one that wants to talk about players who don't play.
But I guess once again it's the same as what you said. Jordan got carried through the regular season by Gervin, and then without Gervin in the playoffs Jordan couldn't win a single game.
And FWIW, Gervin played more in those playoffs than Luka played in these playoffs. And again, Jordan won 0 games, while Lebron won a series. At age 41.
Hey Fallguy I've got a new one for you to add to your standup routine. You can credit the 2020 Lebron ring to the ghost of Kobe Bryant. So then Kobe gets to have 6 rings like MJ and you can bring Lebron down to 3.
You're the one that wants to talk about players who don't play.
But I guess once again it's the same as what you said. Jordan got carried through the regular season by Gervin, and then without Gervin in the playoffs Jordan couldn't win a single game.
Again, Luka carried Lebron to a HIGH SEED, so they avoided OKC in the 1st Round and got swept in the 2nd Round instead.
Otherwise, Lebron is a lottery player without Luka or AD, which isn't comparable to Jordan carrying the worst cast in the league to the playoffs, and 4th quarter leads against the goat team
And FWIW, Gervin played more in those playoffs than Luka played in these playoffs. And again, Jordan won 0 games, while Lebron won a series. At age 41.
The Bulls were 21-42 without MJ in 86', and 9-9 with him, so apparently MJ correctly calculated exactly when he would need to return to reach the magic number of 30 wins.. He wasn't supposed to return at all btw
Hey Fallguy I've got a new one for you to add to your standup routine. You can credit the 2020 Lebron ring to the ghost of Kobe Bryant. So then Kobe gets to have 6 rings like MJ and you can bring Lebron down to 3.
Or I can just say that for Lebron to win as 1st option, he needed franchise players and career 1st options to play 2nd and 3rd option for him.
When we do this, we see that Lebron lost in the 1st Round with top 5 guys as teammates like AD or Luka, and he was even lottery with AD, or the stacked 2019 team (Caruso, Zubacs, Ingram, Rondo, Kuzma and much more). Btw, aside from 2007, Lebron never "took" any team to the Finals because it was always a tag-team job with 1 or 2 other franchise players, aka super-teams.. This ri
This is definitely showing you didn't watch any basketball in 2018/2019. The 18 Cavs were hard carried by Lebron in the playoffs, Kyrie was gone, Love isn't nearly as good as you think.
None of those Lakers listed were great in 19 either, some became good players(or were 5-10yrs earlier in Rondo's case)
You completely ignore how much offense Lebron generates with his passing, he's averaging 8 assists a game aka 16+ points of additional offense, usually on super high % shots.
He's simply twisting and spinning everything that ever happened into something completely different to fit a narrative he's dedicated his life to.
9-9 doesn't seem very good for a guy whose supposed to be the GOAT. This is what you say whenever Lebron loses in the finals but it's okay for Jordan to just be a .500 player when he doesn't have Phil Jackson and prime Scotty and a Horace Grant/Dennis Rodman.
Or I can just say that for Lebron to win as 1st option, he needed franchise players and career 1st options to play 2nd and 3rd option for him.
Jordan had a clear franchise player as his running mate for every championship, and Pippen never missed any games during those playoffs runs.
It's not even debatable that Pippen was a franchise player. And a far better one than Kevin Love or Kyrie Irving or Chris Bosh. Or a Luka who is cheering from the bench in sweats.
You guys say Fallguy spins. But he actually tells why he thinks Jordan is better. I never hear many of you actually say what made Lebron better than Jordan? I get you put up some stats and stuff but all than can be seen as spin, or misleading, the same you're claiming you think Fallguy sometimes does.
So can anyone just explain more directly what made Lebron better than Jordan? I'm just genuinely asking. If you genuinely believe that you all should be able to explain it. Not just stats, but your argument. And again maybe my tone doesn't come out right, just asking in a friendly way. I'm just genuinely curious. Becasue i find it hard to believe anyone can actually put together a few paragraphs, or however long, or short, you need. How you think Lebron was better than Jordan?
Was he a better scorer? No imo. Was he better driver to the hoop? No imo. Was he a better closer? No imo. Did he win more titles? No. Did he shoot better? No imo. Was he faster and more agile? No imo. Really my answer to most every question about was Lebron better at the answer in no, other than possibly Lebron may be a better passer. But even that could be debated as Jordan didn't like to defer to others to score, instead took it upon himself to score. And imo has much less talented players to pass/defer to so him just doing most of the scoring was the most optimal decision. Especially since he was the greatest scorer of all time.
But passing is the only thing i think would be up for debate. Maybe rebounding could be debated? How would he being possibly better at one or two things, and worse at everyhing else, make him better than Jordan?
So for those playing at home, LeBron just outplayed the guy that's going to win the b2b MVPs.
AIM - lock this thread already.
FG is sweating with OKC being 8-0 and SGA having an assisted rate of 19.7%.
I know it doesn't need stating, but I'll do it anyway.
Wemby is so far ahead of MJ at the same age it's hilarious.
Harper also miles ahead of Kobe.
This is definitely showing you didn't watch any basketball in 2018/2019. The 18 Cavs were hard carried by Lebron in the playoffs, Kyrie was gone,
Lebron went went 7 games with Oladipo in the 1st Round... Am I right??.
Essentially, the Eastern Playoffs pitted a two-star team and roster of 3x Finals vets against babies and diluted rosters.. The conference dilution was the predictable result of 1 guy "deciding" to put the top 3 players in the East on 1 team.
And yet if Lebron faced a healthy Celtics team that included Kyrie, they would've been cooked in the ECF instead of barely winning in 7 games... Accordingly, it's hypocritical that Curry is slammed for beating an injured team in 2015, yet Lebron is praised for beating the injured Celtics in 18', or the injured Heat in 20' (as 2nd option).
Ultimately, Lebron's decision was like Brunson, Mitchell and Banchero teaming up, which would completely dilute the East into mush.. That's what Lebron did.
Love averaged 20/10 against the only top 5 SRS opponents that the Cavs faced in those playoffs (Warriors, Raptors), so Lebron never beat a top 5 SRS team in his playoff career with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams).
None of those Lakers listed were great in 19 either, some became good players(or were 5-10yrs earlier in Rondo's case)
Kuzma was destroyed by Lebron just like Bosh, Love and Jamison, while Ingram saw drops across the board in 2019 (PER/BPM/WS/VORP) before resuming his rise in 2020 without Lebron (all-star).
In addition to Ingram and Kuzma, Lebron had Caruso and KCP, who won titles elsewhere, and Zubacs, Rondo and many more.
You completely ignore how much offense Lebron generates with his passing, he's averaging 8 assists a game aka 16+ points of additional offense, usually on super high % shots.
Who cares... MJ averaged 5-7 APG and 5 more ppg in the playoffs, with better efficiency per possession.
For the first 9 years of their playoff careers (06-14' vs 85-93'), Jordan averaged more assists in the playoffs than Lebron.. Lebron only passed him from 2015 onwsrds, when Curry's spacing era made offense easier for everyone..
So the passing is too close to matter, and Jordan wins it anyway when we see that Lebron engages in tremendous ball-dominance/losing to achieve his assists...
Specifically, Lebron's ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles that crater everyone's assists, thus producing low assist teams that have a lottery record against ball movement in the playoffs (Spurs, Warriors, Nuggets).
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I remember playing AAU in high school and we would beat teams by 100 points... The score would be 165 to 47 or something.
But someone on the other team would still have like 19 points or something and looked okay based on the boxscore alone... But obviously, the 19 points are meaningless and non-competitive... This is the same as Lebron's stats... aka meaningless and non-competitive.
Btw, Lebron had 2 teammates average 20 ppg and get Pippen numbers, yet he still got swept and wasn't competitive!!! This speaks to his worst-ever brand of ball and chemistry that underachieved rosters more than anyone in history
Since every team uses high-scoring primary ballhandlers (ball-dominators), the theory doesn't apply.
But in a normal league that has diversity of playing styles among the teams, a ball-dominator will never produce the best basketball as 1st option (dynasty or dominant title run).
Accordingly, the theory stopped applying around 2023 when the last ball movement team won (Nuggets).. Since then, every serious contender uses ball-dominators, so there's no ball movement or diversity of styles to stop them and keep the theory alive.. There's no Curry's, Duncan, or Kobe (off-ball guys) and now we only have Cade, SGA, Maxey, Mitchell, etc (inferior players and inferior brand of ball)..
I know it doesn't need stating, but I'll do it anyway.
Wemby is so far ahead of MJ at the same age it's hilarious.
Wemby has far more help right now THAN MJ EVER HAD
Jordan took the Pistons to 6 and 7 games with no help, so we'll see if Wemby does that to okc WITH help... I think he should easily beat them if he's ahead of MJ like you claim
Of course prime Jordan would win 15 straight with a cast like thale Spurs
My favourite thing is when FG replies to a post talking about something unrelated to the quoted post.
No, my favourite thing is when FG changes his mind if something doesn't work out, when he was harping on only 6 months ago that it's the most important thing in the world.
No, my favourite thing is when he says everybody ever in the history of basketball had more help than MJ, and that MJ's starting 5 included one female, one blind guy, a stick with a volleyball as a head and an inanimate carbon rod.
