Razz: rough 8 vs wheel draw
Hi All,
New to this forum and new to mixed games. Hoping to learn.
Forgive me if I'm butchering terms, but was looking for advice on two hands.
Hand one, heads up in an online play money 8 game tournament, villian is playing reasonably. I have about 4 big bets, he has about 16. I complete with 8 showing and 75 in the hole, he has a q showing. He raises, i raise, he caps. He picks up a 7 and me either a 3 or 4 (can't remember exactly). Get to cap again and I'm all in either 4th street or early on 5th street. He shows a2. I win the run out.
Hand two, early in live horse tournament. Villain was definitely experienced mixed game player, although who's to say how good he was. Bring in, folds to me with three to act, i complete with 7 showing and 85 in the hole (I can't remember but i think i had lowest card showing) call from next to act showing a q, other players fold. Fourth street - I get a 3, he gets a 2. I bet, he raises, I call. Fifth street - I get a 6, he gets another wheel card (4?). I check, he bets, I call. 6th - no improvement for me, nor him (let's call it two jacks). I check, he bets, I call. 7th street, another irrelevant card for me. I check, he bets, I call. He was bluffing with two 2s in the hole. When he saw my 8 he was surprised I called it down that far.
Feedback on my play very welcome. Also, I would like to understand the villians play better. Is a a2x better than rough 8 starting hand? What were they trying to achieve with the raising, particularly with a Broadway card showing.
4 Replies
On fifth he has q64 and you have 8536? You should raise and raise fourth
Hardly anyone in a play money game is going to be playing reasonably. Those who raise with a Q up are not members of the few who do.
A2Q may have similar equity to a rough 8 (I don't know how to figure this), but even if so, it has much worse playability. Could be worth a call of the completion in hopes of catching good on 4th, but raising is terrible.
The second guy is just insane. If you're going to bluff in razz, you need to at least have a low upcard to look credible. Lol at being surprised someone called you down with an 8 when you started out with a Q.
you should definitely be throwing in a c/r on 5th or 6th in the 2nd hand.
You can almost be certain villain has A2 or A3 in the hole when they cold call with a Q up. Its still really bad but whatever.
On 5th when villain catches 2 and 4 he is going to have A234Q at best and most likely be paired.
And then on 6th you have a made 8 vs at best a made J with a wheel draw. Thats the easiest c/r ever.
Thanks all. So concensus is that the villians were playing badly and I'm not missing some weird master trick. And that I missed value on the second hand.
Follow up question: Does the concept of pot control exist in limit games?
