RAZZ hand From SGspecial
I logged into FTP to chat with one of my friends and came across SGspecial at one of the Razz tables. I decided to observe a hand or two, and I watched a HU hand that was played out between Paul Wolfe and Yourself. I don't know who he is, if he's any good, but they have him listed as a pro, but w/e. Here's the hand in rough form:
K brings it in.
All big cards fold to SG, who completes with a 4.
Paul Wolfe (PW) raises with a 6, the K folds, SG calls and they go HU.
Turn:
SG: (xx xx) 48 Checks
PW: (xx xx) 6T Check
5TH:
SG (xx xx) 482 Bets
PW (xx xx) 6T9 Calls
Question:
Why are you checking 4th.
Why is he calling 5th.
Did your check 4th to entice him to call on later streets.
I left out the limit and the remainder of the hand because it was 4th/5th that I found to be a bit unusual yet interesting. Not doubting your play in the least----Razz is probably my least played game, but if you don't mind sharing your thoughts...
2 Replies
I wish I wasn’t 12 in 2009. This was an awesome thread to find.
Going out on a whim posting this. Not an expert by any means but I understand logical reasoning and how it relates to poker theory. Really just posting this reply to think out and analyze my own thoughts on the hand.
Maybe theory has just evolved since then but idk how so many people were advocating playing unbalanced v. a seemingly straightforward player like Paul Wolfe. If anything, IÂ’d think youÂ’d want to be even MORE balanced.
1. What does the check on 4th look like to an unadvanced player? HeÂ’s most likely not going to think that you are able to check your smooth 4 card 8Â’s on 4th. So if checking in an obvious betting situation against a simple player, the check looks weak. To him, you probably paired your 8 or you started with a rough three card 9. ThatÂ’s not 3rd level thinking. ThatÂ’s 1st level. Although not advanced, every player is going to draw a conclusion from HOW you played the street. The most simple conclusion from your play on 4th is that youÂ’re weak. For all the reasons why everyone advocated for the check is the exact reason why you should bet 4th.
So by playing straightforward and turning your had face up, he thinks heÂ’s ahead on 5th or only slightly behind your 98xx. In which case, with your logic, what was your purpose for betting 5th? To get him to fold IÂ’m assuming? Which is exactly why you bet 4th against a simple player so that your bet on 5th actually looks credible. Everyone understands heÂ’s not going to fold on 4th. In a double raised pot on 3rd, 4th street is almost an auto continue.
And those saying that checking the paired 8 balances your checking range. Well yes but now you are unbalanced all together towards checking on an obvious betting street where you catch lower than villain. You can balance your checking range with your really strong draws which in this case donÂ’t exist as a 4 card 8 isnÂ’t very strong.
Realize this is moot decades later but it was a really fun thread to read. Had FOMO not being around for it years ago.
Wow a 5 page thread on a razz hand. Those were the days. Misplayed by both players.
