Let's Talk Watches

I bought:

Cartier $5.2K after taxes, sold for $2.8k (first watch, bought retail)
Omega $5K, sold for $3K
GP $8.5K, sold for 6.5K
Rolex $18K, sold for 14K (bought from a reputable but expensive dealer bc I was worried about counterfeit Rolexes)

$10.4K lost… why tf would I lie about losing money on watches lol

I’m not proud of it and I’m sure I made plenty of mistakes

If you’re asking more about my mindset for why’d I sell them…

I sold the Cartier bc I wore it 2x in 6mo after I got the Omega and Rolex

I sold the Omega bc I got in my head that I really wanted an integrated steel watch and I didn’t think I’d wear the omega if I had it

I sold the GP because I really disliked it, considered getting a Rolex Explorer or OP or even Sub, but decided I needed to take a break on buying

Sold the Day-Date because I got bored of it and that was the final straw for me to say I need to stop buying relatively expensive watches and move towards cheap ones

calm down

i said nothing you did made any sense, further explaining your rtarded decisions doesn't change how what you did was so dumb in the first place

I was hoping you were making it up because if the above is true that's literally the saddest thing I ever read

seek help, you have serious issues unrelated to watches that cause that behavior

Cool bro. You’re a dick and a loser.

I lost $10K which had almost no actual impact on my life other than to make me realize I should probably buy cheaper watches if I want to continue buying watches

I asked a question about what cheaper watches I should consider, I wasn’t rude in anyway

You then proceed to attack me multiple times.

You probably have no irl friends and are likely a virgin so I’ll let it go

The Watch market is based heavily on knowledge of moving market dynamics of these hard asset goods... invest poorly and you will get poor investment performance or even losses... even SIGNIFICANT losses. This is doubly so/true for the Vintage Horology Market which has it's own sub-genre rules.

This 'wise investment' philosophy is a non-sequitur if one does not really care... However, if your idea is to buy a timepiece, wear it for a period of time, then resell it at par or a slight loss, one should still choose wisely.

I am not specifically pointing at you, but having a look at what you have invested in, I am certain when I say... you did not choose wisely.

You are not alone in this situation as MOST who have entered the market over the last handful of years have experienced these losses when they have combined poor selections with a very soft secondary market... Even World class timepieces are deflating, albeit at a more controled rate, and when you combine that with a timepiece that no one really wants, you can see what will happen to your investments.

Shopping 'Brand' is ultra important and while a piece might be a good watch, a couple of those pieces are from less desirable Brands.

The Rolex Day/Date is your best piece by far, but I think those Vintage 18k D/D Rolex's are MUCH LESS desirable than are the Rolex 'Steel Sports' market over the last 5 years... The Precious metal market is just very soft. In addition, the condition of most your your pieces are

at any rate, you already know all this because you've got 'experience' now... this is a cautionary tale for others.

I agree that there are some good pieces in the low end of the market, but be advised that you wont be making money in that segment for the most part, you should be able to buy, wear and enjoy those pieces without value retention expectations... again, if you choose wisely.

The horology market is broken down into many segments... the entry level <$1500... the low end <$5000... the main market $7000-$15,000... the high end >$20,000.

If you buy a low end piece for $5000, you might be happy if you can get $3000 when you try and resell it in a couple years... if you're buying a $1500 piece, you are going to be lucky if you get anything for it... maybe $200-$300.

that opens another discussion... should you buy 5 $1500 watches, or should you buy a single $7500 watch?

That is a personal choice based on aversion to risk... Should you spend $7500 putting together a collection of low end pieces that might be worth $1500 used, if your lucky, after your done with them... or should you buy one $7500 watch that might be worth $5800-$6500, or even 'par' when you're done with it?

I come in at the later of those two choices... buy a single piece that you really love and cherish, and choose wisely when you do so.

Very reasonable perspective and I definitely learned a lot of lessons from my losses

I fully expect not to be able to resell my $600 watch for anything, but I'm kinda fine with just keeping it at that point and buying another $600 watch.

The problem for me came when I would have $5K watches that I didn't wear at all sitting around and I felt guilty for not enjoying that watch anymore and then eventually sold it for a big loss. And yeah i definitely overpaid for all of the watches, which was a big mistake on my part.

I'm going to go forward with just $600 and under watches for the time being (maybe 2 of them) until I feel confident in what types of watches I like/don't like long term and then maybe I'll buy a nicer one in a 3-5 years if I feel like it

I think it's a perfect perspective to buy into horology at a level where you feel most comfortable and it makes the hobby of collecting more enjoyable when doing so... all the while you are learning and gaining perspective on what the market dynamics are.

Do you two have history? Why are you giving him such a hard time? He seems sincere in asking the forum for advice and sharing his story; Not sure anything he said deserves this level of criticism.

If the Tudor Black Bay 58 has any appeal to you, take a look at this Glycine Combat Sub.

https://www.gnomonwatches.com/products/c...

There's actually a way to buy watches and have them keep their resale value over time. I know some people who made a killing because of covid price jumps. You can swing-trade watches but just understand that you might get stuck holding the bag for a while. Don't sell when it's down so much. Inflation alone benefits you if you keep everything in good shape and only stick with brands that keep their resale value. (I'm not reading your wall of text and I am assuming you are not buying new. If you are buying new, none of this applies to you.)

There's also the possibility that you don't negotiate well when you are buying and selling. Unless you desperately need the money or the watch, hold out for a good deal. Treat it like poker and only make a move when you're in a favorable spot. The research it takes to do that is basically watch porn, which everybody loves.

I'm not saying this to insult you or discourage you, but to help you keep wearing a nice watch, as a gentleman should.

Does this actually make sense as an investment though?

1) Seems to be based a lot on greater fool theory - people buying things they would never otherwise value as highly as the price except for the expectation that there will be a greater fool to sell to later.

2) Kids don't wear watches anymore, and large numbers of them probably won't as adults, so there will be nobody to offload these collections to later on.

3) New collectible watches come out every year.

So that adds up to increased supply but static demand > prices should fall or fail to keep up with inflation long term.

Change my mind. 😉

No, just stating ways of lessening the cost of owning watches. It can go up or down but it's not a terrible store of value if you can be patient with entry and exit points. But make no mistake, it's not a wise investment if the only goal is making money or storing value.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my intention, but this poor guy lost a ton on watches, and I was just pointing out that there's a better way to buy and sell, wear some of your goal watches, and not take a bath on the whole thing. The value goes up and down and he's getting in high and exiting as low as possible.

This is very possible, yes.

Not relevant in this situation.

Lots of what you're saying is correct. Some of it isn't. They're not making any more '65 Mustangs, for example. But overall I don't disagree with you. You have to be willing to lose money if you want to wear a big-boy watch.

NEVER try and swing trade timepieces... you're going to loose your arse.

OCCASIONALLY you can get lucky and get access to a piece that will net you some value, but that is in the one percentile.

Even established secondary market watch sellers and flippers are getting killed these days... just don't do it.

buy what you love and are willing to keep and just be aware that 'SOME' timepieces will depreciate at a slower rate than others... and if you are lucky, you will find one that appreciates.

end of story.

you sir, just described 99.99% of ALL INVESTMENTS... Including housing, antiques, art, most public stocks, precious metals, etc etc etc.

Labeling something as being 'Greater Fool' is straw man foolery.

bump

Watches and Wonder 2025 is coming up soon.

Here is hoping these ass hat watch makers start making more 37mm-39mm watches. And more brushed or satin finishes instead of all this shiny polished stuff.

39mm okay... 37mm, jesus.

plastic isn't shinny.

It was 13 years ago that I first got interested in watches and posted here before buying an Oris. My tastes and purchasing power have grown since then. My two additions this year ...

that Thousand gauss is the best version with the blue crystal... nice.

I agree on the Milgauss. I first tried on the Z Blue at a Rolex shop when it came out and fell in love with the dial. Finally ended up getting it. The Universal Geneve is my first foray into vintage watches, and I jumped into the deep end with a 1945 Tri-Compax. Over 80 years it had two owners, father and son. The father bought it in 1945 upon the birth of his son, gifted it to his son upon his college graduation with an inscription of his initials and the year, and the 80 year old son was selling it.

full complication with moon phase, month, day in 18k gold are ALWAYS good. how accurate is that thing and who made the manual movement?

Yeah, it was among the most complicated watches when it came out. This watch got like a $2k service done in Switzerland in 2014. It’s running about 90 seconds fast a day. From my research, they are in-house movements Universal Geneve Calibre 287 but were probably made in collaboration with Martel.

When I first got into watches, you can see on this board how I favored simplistic dials without too much going on. I didn’t even like dates on a watch. My tastes have changed, but I still like uncluttered dials and appreciate how this one manages to appear uncluttered despite having a lot going on. Everything is perfectly balanced. But the character of the moon face is what really made this stand out to me over other watches.

I had never heard of Universal Geneve before seeing one of these on an email from a local vintage watch shop. As that moon face lingered in my mind, I looked into the brand and learned of its great history. That it was (literally) right alongside Patek and Rolex as the top Swiss brands from the 1930s to the 1960s and particularly innovative with its chronographs. The quartz fad of the 70s and digital watches of the 80s were a dark time for fine watchmaking. Rolex and Patek made it through, UG didn’t. A Hong Kong holding company bought the brand in 1989 and did little with it for the past 35 years. But Breitling bought UG for $60 million a year and a half ago and plans to relaunch UG next year. I saw a Robb Report article predicting that Universal Geneve will be the most important watch company of the 21st century. That seems a little strong, but it did appeal to me to get the watch before public interest in Universal Geneve returns. Here’s a photo I found online of UG’s Geneva headquarters right between Rolex and Patek for decades.

nice... it's a beautiful piece. is that some 'foxing' on the dial or is it just the camera angle?

do you know what frequency it runs at?

I just noticed the tachymeter. if the piece was older, I would say it might be a train conductors timepiece.

Frequency is 18000. There's definitely some patina on the dial and scratches to the plastic. Father and son got their use of it over 80 years.

The Time Keepers

Looking to add a new piece to the collection for a landmark / milestone. My wife thinks the Hublot watch is to "iced out."

Hublot caught my eye when I was at the Hard Rock Casino in Hollywood FL at the storefront inside the casino at the mall. I purchased my watch preowned Hublot limited edition (with box & card) and saved 50% off new retail in 2024. I have been very happy with the purchase and have had no issues. The watch goes on a watch winder when not in use.

It is between the Hublot for $12.5k or spend $24k and get an AP Royal Oak Offshore.

If anyone has any suggestions for a rose gold watch in the $10k-25k range, please let me know. Very hard to find anything in that range. Who knows, maybe for the next milestone / landmark.

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I cannot imagine spending that much money on a watch. Not that I could anyway, but still lol.

Your wife is correct. I like any AP better than any Hublot, but preference is subjective.