WSOP Circuit Events bad dealers
I've been playing as a serious rec the past couple of years at the WSOP Circuit and I wondered if anyone else has had issues as I know the dealers travel. I also have had some issue with the way the tournaments have been run.
In the past couple of weeks in a 4 event span I've seen pots pushed the wrong direction more than 10 times.
Dealers dealing in players that late reg'd and needed the button to pass them before they can be in.
Dealers cutting players breaks when they make illegally sized raises or when they put in chips because they didn't realize there was a raise in front of them.
I played in the Grand Victoria Circuit main event today and it all kind of culminated in a massive **** show that will probably prevent me from playing in the future.
There was a guy at our table in the 6 seat either not paying attention or angle shooting. He made illegally sized raises and had to be corrected several times in just a few levels. He acted out of turn twice. Then I proceeded to witness the following hand. The pot was raised and then the 5 seat 3bet to 6500. The guy in seat 6 proceeds to put 1500 chips in. The dealer tells him it's 6500 so the guy takes the 1500 out of the pot and attempts to muck his hand, to which the dealer allows him to keep his cards but tells him the 1500 must stay in the pot and his options are folding but forfeiting the 1500 or calling the 6500. The guy proceeds to push all his chips in the middle, and the dealer again has to correct him and say the action is not allowed as it's a string bet, and gave him ANOTHER opportunity to fold his cards without making him commit the full 6500 to the pot which by rule should now be force committed since he put them in the pot. Finally seat 6 "calls" the 6500 and on a KJ10 flop seat 5 tilt jams into him and he snaps with KJ, beating seat 5's pocket Q's for a double up. The floor never came to address the player and he was allowed to win a pot that he should have been forced out of when he elected to fold his cards when he thought he could take his 1500 back out.
Different dealer talks about how she went to the Chicago Blackhawks game the night before which was an overtime game, so that made me weary of her preparedness to deal the biggest tournament I played this year. I'm in the big blind as she swaps in, and she sweeps my big blind ante into the middle and seat 4 moments later while she's shuffling says "oh is this mine?" as he had dragged the previous pot and she said "I think so" and I had to cut her off and tell her that no, that was my big blind ante. She proceeds to push 2 different pots the wrong way and had to be corrected by players at the table on who won the pot.
Next orbit, I have a bare spade draw going to the river with A9 of spades. While she's fidgeting with the deck during turn action she tries to do 2 things at once and pull all the action in the pot while still holding the deck and dropped the deck, with the top 3 cards flipping over. The 2nd card of course would have completed by spade flush, the rest of the deck is now out of order and I believe the muck even got mixed in. She did not call the floor over, she simply burned the top card she picked up and then put down the 2nd card that was in the newly mixed deck and needless to say I don't make my flush and get called when I bluff the river.
Just wanted to see if others have seen this level of amateurism while playing WSOP circuit events.
5 Replies
I recently played the circuit at Choctaw circuit. Dealers sucked! Dealt me no cards to play with for 4 straight days.
You have to call for the floor on that hand where the deck was dropped.
We had the traveling crew for the run good in Council Bluffs last week. Very poor dealer performance during the o/8 event.
You should have called the floor when the deck got dropped. Dealer also should have asked for help, but if you're in the hand and you let it happen, it's hard to complain.
The described hand with the 1500 attempted call after someone else had raised doesn't seem so terrible to me. Now, the guy in the 6 seat should realize that the guy in the 5 seat had JUST RAISED right next to him. That said, when the dealer tells him "it's 6500" and the guy tries to take back his 1500 and muck his cards, the dealer is CORRECT to tell him that he can't take back his 1500. And, having said that, I'm OK (if the cards are on their backs and not actually in the muck) with the dealer giving the guy a second chance to either call or forfeit his cards since the guy mistakenly (?) thought he could retract the bet and muck. So far, I'm not faulting the dealer. Then, when the guy decides to shove, the dealer is again CORRECT to tell him that he does not have that option -- he must call the 6500 or fold and forfeit the 1500. I agree with you that, having attempted to move all-in, the dealer should consider that a call, take the 6500 from his stack that was pushed forward, and return him the rest of his chips. He should not have had a second chance to fold and only lose 1500. But, since the guy ultimately did call, no harm done. Yes, a mistake, but I've seen far worse. Seems like this dealer made many mistakes, and inexperienced dealers will do that. In large events, you have to anticipate some green dealers. If the players at the table are helping each other and helping the dealer, it's not that bad (usually). Take a breath and roll with it. If you're only playing events where you know you have all A-list dealers, you won't play much.
I agree with Kevin regarding the 1500 hand. The Dealer basically did everything right. Players must be told that the 1500 stays in no matter what and they can call or fold. When the player then decides to jam the Dealer correctly tells him that isn't a choice and ultimately the player gets to decide whether to call or fold.
The 2nd dealer made mistakes but this happens. I had to learn the hard way that when I put out blinds that Dealers may accidentally push them with the rest of the pot they are pushing. Its happened to me twice (Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun) in the past two years. Now I will either wait or keep the blind under my hand until the dealer has completed pushing the pot. In terms of a BB ante you are lucky the dealer believed you. For me it had to be resolved both times by cameras. A dealer pushing a pot to the wrong person (twice) is bad but it happens. I have never actually seen it end up with the wrong person getting the pot and the players helped out in a good way.
The 3rd one is painful and I get your anger. But if you had won a pot you shouldn't have won you would have a different take on it. Accidents happen.
I've played this year on the WSOP circuit in Las Vegas, Baltimore, and South Lake Tahoe. Most of the Dealers told me they travelled but I did not see any of the same dealers at any of those places. In all 3 series I thought the dealers were amazing. They made some mistakes but to a person they owned their mistakes. The only thing that happened that I didn't agree with was I raised with like A3o in the HJ and the SB and BB called. There was an A on the flop and I bet and was called by the SB. I checked the turn and the river also checked through and the SB turned over AT which I saw. But I couldn't tell if the board was paired or not in the 8 seat and there was an A and K on the board. So I asked the dealer if the T played. And he wouldn't say anything and wouldn't pull up any cards on the board. He told me I had to turn over my hand and then he would tell me. So I put on my magnifying glasses and looked at the board as carefully as I could and believed it wasn't paired and mucked my hand because I didn't want them to see how wide my opening range was. I then asked the Floor later and he told me the Dealer was wrong and should have declared the hand (by pulling up the 3 board cards that matched the AT or saying something like Pair of Aces with K, T, and 9). I didn't tell the Floor who the Dealer was because I didn't want them to get in trouble but I suggested that the floor tell all the dealers that interpretation of the rule for future reference. I went back to the Dealer during the break and told him what the floor told me and the Dealer said he still disagreed. Lol.
The traveling crew variance at Circuit stops is real. Some crews are sharp, some are genuinely rough, and it seems to cluster by region. What bugs me more than individual errors is when dealers don't call the floor themselves on anything ambiguous. That 6-seat situation should have had a floor ruling the moment the player tried to muck after the 1500 was in. Dealer handled it okay but floor should have been standing there for that whole sequence.
