Atlantic City General Discussion

The sad state of poker in AC, if not AC in general, that it's almost a year since someone posted in this thread. Only three rooms left, and two aren't open around the clock. How long before it's down to two?

sad that it came to this,, when sands/parx et al started being popular, the nyc crowd also stopped coming , either playing at parx or staying in the city .

TBF MGM also royally screwed up Borgata

COVID was a big factor as well. A lot of places haven't fully recovered and a lot of rooms never reopened, not just in AC.

Unless you’re a rec 1/2 or 1/3 guy, poker is dead here, been this way for years. It’s not coming back either.

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Id throw 2/5 in there as well but yea pretty much

Some think that and there's some truth to it. But MGM owning Borgata isn't the reason Caesars closes its rooms at night, isn't the reason casinos opened in PA and other areas, and isn't the reason other AC casinos closed down. AC is dying a slow death. They need to do a better job at promoting the place and fixing the things that need fixing. And by they I mean mainly the casinos, as they will benefit from it directly. But with MGM and Caesars owning four of the properties (4 1/2 really), which compete with other properties they own elsewhere, there's little incentive to do so (How long before Caesars sells Trop?). That leaves it to the other properties that do less business and have less to invest, and/or the local government (ha ha).

The COVID thing is certainly part of it. People with the habit of travelling to AC were forced to stop. When it re-opened, a percentage of those people had broken the habit and re-evaluated other options. I think society calls that a reset.

Online gambling is also part of it. You don't have to leave the house to gamble, and if you have an itch to drive to AC, sometimes you can't scratch it because you already lost too much online.

Remember the days when every casino had a ton of busses bringing in the masses on a daily basis? I can't remember the last time someone said they had to leave to catch their bus. For that matter, I can't remember the last time I SAW a bus in AC.

Opening of real nyc casinos will just make it worse in AC. Covid definitely destroyed the poker scene but they had a chance to come back strong, AC casino execs just chose not to prioritize it

Without free or discounted rooms for poker I don’t have a desire to drive nearly 4 hours and pay a ton out of pocket. I do miss the limit games at borg but just isn’t worth it with so many options under one hour drive. The seasons don’t help, there is really no reason to go in the winter when you can’t hit nice beaches nearby, walk the boards etc. That said, free or even like 100 dollar weekend rooms would get me back to Borg but it’s not going to happen.

I am hardly a bigtime player but I am able to be Caesar's Rewards Diamond every year just by using the Rewards Visa for my groceries, playing poker when I can at CET rooms, and a little slot play (usually hit AC on a 10x multiplier day for slots as well) and reliably get 4 rooms a month every day but Saturday. I realize this doesn't help people who prefer the Borgata. I might myself but I cannot play there. I enjoy my free rooms.

Caesars owns 3 properties in AC, not 4. 3.5 if you count WWW but that's kind of a nothing burger at this point

The other AC rooms were effectively dead pre COVID. Borgata wasn't. Mgm destroyed it.

Agreed.

The only thing that kept Harrahs/WWW holding on for as long as it did was the daily tournaments. $65 might seem worthless to some but it really did bring some foot traffic to the properties. I get it though, it’s not worth having dealers on staff for the casinos. Bring back the $100 daily at Borg on Wednesdays though, I miss that one the most. lol

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I didn't write that Caesars owned four properties.

I wrote, "But with MGM and Caesars owning four of the properties (4 1/2 really),"

Let's count together. Borgata (MGM) 1 + Caesars (Caesars) = 2 + Trop (Caesars) = 3 + Harrah's (Caesars) = 4 + Wild West (Caesars) = 4.5

Yea, you've made a load of posts in the Borgata thread condemning MGM already. You seem to be on a mission. My first post was about the declining state of poker in AC, AND AC in general, not specifically the Borgata and not just poker. But thanks for reminding everyone of that opinion for the umpteenth time, lest we forget.

Yeah, I missed that, obviously. Thanks for the counting lesson, big dawg

I've seen the back and forth between you two and the Borgata thread, and quite honestly from an impartial observer, you seem just as on a mission as he does. You come across like an apologist

Your comment seemed a little snarky--jumping on what you considered a mistake on my part, which even if I had made, was irrelevant to the point I was making.

Apologist? I'd argue a realist. And I see little point in continually pointing out the flaws in others, or letting them get to me. Plus I don't agree they're as terrible as he makes it. Is Borgata the best? Nope. Were they terrible when they re-opened after COVID? Yes, but there were reasons, some of which were understandable, and they got better and continue to do so. Do I have some beefs with the way they do things. Sure. To be fair, he's mainly a PLO player and probably experiences more problems than I do in Holdem. But the problems at Borgata, however bad some might think, are not the main reason for the problems with AC in general. Borgata poker, and AC poker in general, has little impact on the overall trend in AC.

I actually meant no snark in my initial response, but it's all good. Last one, for sure, lol

Borgata has nothing to do with what's going on in AC in general, don't think he's ever argued that. It does, however, have something to do with the strength of the overall poker scene and player pool in the city.

Borgata was the pre-eminent East Coast poker room for over a decade. The slippage in AC Poker has coincided with the downslide of the Borgata. That isn't a coincidence, and it's not because of COVID. Lack of rooms re-opening, that's one thing, but the overall player pool, amount of games, diversity of offerings is down huge since after the pandemic.

I think the free rooms is the biggest issue, but the cage issue is also a big one, and the quality of the floors has gone way down, too. Add it all together, and people would rather play elsewhere. For NYC players, that's the PA rooms

and I commented on the state of poker in AC as well as the Borgata specifically.
Poker in AC was in the toilet before covid outside of the Borgata, poker in the Borgata was doing fine for the most part.
Those other rooms never reopened because they were essentially dead already. It would have made no sense to reopen them.

Those are the facts. If you have a problem with me stating those facts in a thread about the state of poker in AC that's a strange hill to die on.

You acted like those other rooms were humming along until covid which wasn't the case and I commented on that.

You also talk about me trashing mgm a lot (fair) but you incorrectly try and blame rooms that opened ten+ years ago in Delware, PA and Maryland as the reason for the decline in the rooms in AC in 2024. Sands (wind creek)and Parx opened in 2009.Delware Park got a casino around that time. Maryland Live opened in 2012. Those customers lost 12+ years ago aren't the reason for a huge decline many years later. They're the reason for losing customers at the time of those openings.

And you're more than happy to harp on that point while being completely wrong as much as I'm happy to trash MGM. Seems like "you seem to be on a mission. My first post was about the declining state of poker in AC, AND AC in general, not specifically the Borgata and not just poker. But thanks for reminding everyone of that opinion for the umpteenth time, lest we forget" applies to you as well.

If you're gonna harp on something at least be right.

I agree with basically everything you said here, but to be fair, the PA rooms being an option is kind of a big deal in terms of the AC poker market's health. If they didn't exist, AC poker would likely be doing a lot better right now solely just because of the NYC players that now prefer PA rooms over AC. There seemed to be a big shift when the comp rooms dried up

We had this debate a while back in the Borgata thread. I wasn't looking to rehash it here. If you're 100% correct, it's just part of the poker decline since the 2000s, and a tiny part of the overall decline in AC. If anything, the Borgata is doing better than most if not all of the other AC casinos.

In my opinion, the room situation is the main reason for the decline in Borgata poker since COVID. Not just by players from NYC, but also from other areas, including PA. One of Borg's beefs is with the quality of dealers and floor people at the Borgata. And it was horrible after COVID. When we debated this issue a while back, I was of the opinion that it had gotten much better. I played a lot there the last two months, and they had gotten better still. I was surprised they were handling bomb parts well, with a few exceptions (possibly more issues at PLO). Also, I don't think a lot of players are opting to play elsewhere because of the quality of the dealers at Borgata. It's the lack of comped rooms.

HomeStar - borg23 - George_Rice -Same arguments in multiple threads. All make good points. All seem like quality posters here at 2+2.

I tend to read them all since I follow these threads being someone who plays a lot, with easily the most career hours being 1- Parx then followed by 2- Borgata. Living 20 mins from parx and over an hour from Borgata I play at Parx much more. I don't post too often but figured I'll finally post some comments about the discussion.

I'd tend to lean with borg23 on a few things. First off, don't think he is Borgata hater for no reason. It seems based on fond feelings for the Borgata and just how far they have fallen since the last 5 years or so coinciding with around when MGM took over. Can't say I blame him. Other two guys seem to agree but the % blame is the main cause of the disagreements so I'll give my opinion on the majors reasons for the decline. Only talking about the severe decline in the last 5 years (not 20 years, not 30 years, etc)

Casinos opening in other states - easily the biggest reason for the decline of AC as a whole including most of AC poker. But not really for Borgata. Borgata survived and was doing perfectly fine for a decade after Philly casinos opened. Most AC poker consolidated to Borgata as other rooms shrank and closed. I'm not saying casinos opening in other states helped Borgata, it certainly hurt overall, but they survived it and were still a top poker room.

Covid This really hurt Borgata bigtime. They handled the whole pandemic recovery horribly. My first visit back after re-opening was probably 3-4+ months later and I couldn't believe how behind everywhere else they were, both the poker room and resort as a whole. Couldn't believe how many things were still closed or only partially open after that long to recover compared to other casinos in other states. It was a joke. Not sure what % fault is Borgatas and how much New Jersey as a state contributed . I know Governor Murphy was a huge Covid nit and really hurt a lot of businesses worse then other states.

MGM taking over Easily the biggest reason for Borgata decline the last 5 years in my opinion. I'm somewhat of an outsider since I haven't been there much the last few years. However, the main reasons I haven't been there much the last few years are all MGM reasons. Lack of free rooms, until just this past year. where somehow they got re-instated. Visited a couple more times this years only because free rooms were back and was disappointed each time. Mainly with the poker options. The floor and getting in games were nothing but bad experiences with how they were operating, too lazy to post details/stories.. lets just say they were subpar.. Probably doesn't help only free room nights are weekdays and there in no game variety during the week. Even the little things, like when I did play I didn't even bother to persue getting the few comp dollars I probably earned after reading the headache the process seemed after reading lots of posts on here. Now it might be easy after getting used to it but dreaded dealing with it for the first time.
I didn't even have to deal with the instances of no cage being open in the poker room or really bad dealer times like I see posted from the last 5 years. Which seems insulting to poker players. Never had any negative bias towards MGM before taking over Borgata from my trips to Vegas in the past.

My personal blame breakdown for Borgata's decline, not including any other factors. Philly casinos 5% , Covid 20%, MGM 75%. That's assigning the blame for the horrible recovery from the Covid shutdown to MGM and not the pandemic itself

+1

Regarding the "Borgata decline", I also agree many good points have been made. It might help, though, to clarify, what decline we are talking about:

1. Size of room, amount of games available, etc.

- Outside of Tuesdays (at Parx), I think Borgata still may be the biggest and has the most games/options so some may wonder "what decline"
- PLO being a clear exception where Parx dominates

2. How well the room is run/quality of the dealers/floor

- Both pre and post MGM, in my opinion, Borgata has always been below the average
- The reduced cage availability post COVID/MGM has not helped

3. Comps/Hotel/Restaurants

- Post MGM, Borgata has obviously declined in this category

I agree with everything but …

2. How well the room is run/quality of the dealers/floor.

I think under management of poker room manager Kellie deCelis things getting better.