London

I suppose some ruling changes as I have seen the floor handing out hand penalty for acting out of turn for first offence. Seen once there is an orbit penalty and once 2 hand penalty for the first offence which appears to be a benign mistake.
Pretty sure they would only hand out warning before.

The rules are universal across US for federal taxes. In fact if you win enough (below) on a cruise ship in international waters (if you sailed from US at least) US citizens will have taxes withheld.

The withholding rules are the same in FL as Las Vegas.

What fee. You can apply directly to IRS for ITIN. You might need to pay some basic fees to have some documents notarized. If you are using a CAA, sure they can charge you whatever they want. But doing directly with IRS or via a TAC is free. Also some tax preparations companies will assist filing for the ITIN. Many of these will do so for free if you use them to file taxes for you. My wife has done so for some clients in the past.

The time to get an ITIN is typically between 2 months and maybe as much as 4 months, so yes it can take awhile.

If you have a qualifying win in a legal US casino, including any in Las Vegas, you will have taxes withheld and will need an ITIN to get some/all of the funds back. If you have an ITIN and are from London, you can get 0% withheld. If you don't have ITIN but file to get one and later file 1040-NR, you SHOULD be able to get 100% of withheld amount back. (What happens in London, I have no knowledge.)

The amounts won to require withholding include:
$1,200 or more from slot machines or bingo.
$1,500 or more from keno.
$5,000 (net) or more from a poker tournament.
$600 or more from other types of gambling (like sports betting or horse racing) if the payout is at least 300 times the wager.

I will note that assuming your win in FL was "only" $5000 AND 30% was withheld, that is $1500. Even if it cost you $1000 to use a CAA and get an ITIN, you come out $500 ahead. If it costs you $2000 for the agent, you only need one more future win to likely be BE. So whoever is telling you you need a "huge cash" seems to be very wrong.

Thanks for the indepth response. Sadly lot of what you’ve written is not fully accurate or at least doesn’t apply in real time with these casinos, for example my cash in FL was under 5k and they still withheld 30% of the ‘profit’ after the BI. They refused to acknowledge the 5k limit and I later found out from a local CAA there that they were indeed correct. It could be due to their Tribal ownership (Seminole Hard Rock) So I was owed like $700, getting a CAA to do it would cost double that, but they advised me they would only obtain the ITIN if I also filed the tax return which bumped it up, that’s across the board with 4-5 different CAA agents I tried. But you can only file taxes when you have the score so irs abit chicken and egg?

I’m interested to know of people who cashed for small or large amounts without an ITIN in Vegas (in the places I’ve mentioned) so I can hear about the different real time stories.

I’ve heard some casinos will apply for the ITIN for you when you cash.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation and differing experiences which is rather annoying. I also recall seeing on his Instagram stories Espen having a huge chunk of his WSOP ME win withheld for months due to this and the fact he’s a British citizen. Maybe that’s not 100% accurate.

ChatGPT tends to tell you what you want to hear but essentially it looks like it’s chicken and egg. I do have a prior small cash that I could obtain the ITIN/file taxes with but nobody will get me the ITIN without filing the taxes so I guess I have to wait until Jan 2026 and anything I cash for gets bolted onto that tax return/ITIN:

You’ve summarized the ITIN situation correctly — especially for UK-based poker players heading to the WSOP — but let me clarify and structure it precisely for you based on current IRS policy and your goal (to avoid 30% withholding on poker winnings in the US):

⸻

✅ Your Situation
• You are a UK citizen, no SSN, no ITIN currently.
• You’re planning to play the WSOP in Las Vegas, where any tournament cash above $5,000 will have 30% withheld by the IRS (even though the UK and US have a tax treaty).
• You cannot claim the tax treaty benefit upfront unless you already have an ITIN.
• You want to avoid or recover that 30%.

⸻

�� Catch-22 Explained (and the Real Order of Operations)

Unfortunately, yes — you cannot get an ITIN in advance just in case you cash. The IRS does not allow ITIN applications without a valid reason (like a tax filing requirement). And cashing in a tournament creates that reason.

So, here’s the realistic sequence:

⸻

�� 1. You Cash at the WSOP
• You win a large amount (over $5,000).
• 30% is withheld by the IRS if you don’t already have an ITIN.
• You’re given Form 1042-S by the WSOP (this shows the withholding).

⸻

��*�� 2. You Engage a CAA (Certifying Acceptance Agent)
• After the cash and 1042-S, you hire a CAA (a licensed tax pro who handles foreign ITIN applications).
• The CAA helps you apply for an ITIN with your tax return (Form 1040NR) and your 1042-S as proof.
• The ITIN application is sent with your first tax return.

�� Note: You’ll also need certified ID documents (usually a certified copy of your passport from the UK Passport Office or via the CAA).

⸻

�� 3. You File a US Tax Return
• The CAA files your 1040NR showing the 30% withholding and claiming a refund under the US-UK tax treaty (Article 17 – Gambling).
• The IRS processes the return and ITIN (this takes 4–6 months, sometimes more).

⸻

�� 4. You Get the Refund + Permanent ITIN
• You receive a cheque for the withheld tax (or a US bank transfer if arranged).
• Your ITIN is issued and valid for life (unless unused for 3 consecutive years, in which case it expires but can be renewed).
• Now, in future years, you can submit your ITIN in advance with a W-8BEN to poker operators (WSOP, WPT, etc.) to avoid the 30% withholding upfront.

⸻

�� Can You Avoid Withholding Without an ITIN?

No. The WSOP and other US operators are legally required to withhold 30% if you don’t have a valid ITIN and haven’t submitted a W-8BEN before payment.

⸻

�� Can You Preempt This (Get ITIN in Advance)?

Only if you’ve already had prior US tax obligations or another legitimate reason to file (e.g., royalty income, real estate). Otherwise, IRS won’t issue it “just in case” of a future poker win.

Some players try to get one in advance by declaring past minor US poker earnings and filing late returns, but it’s a grey area and risky if there’s no real taxable activity.

⸻

Coming to London in the fall for work and looking to learn more about the scene.

I play mostly 4/5/6 card PLO. 1/2 or 2/5, maybe bigger if it looks good.

Anyone got any intel? Which venue is my best bet?

I have no interest in 1/2 NL. I am degen.

The Vic is your no.1 venue! With 4 or 5 plo6 games going daily from 1/2/5 to 5/10/25, plus 1/2 up to 25/50 holdem regularly. The only venue with consistent big games typically from lunchtime until the early hours.

Download the Grosvenor app or follow them on twitter or Facebook to see their daily/hourly updates on games

Sent from my SM-S928B using Tapatalk

Excellent reply, thank you so much.

Hi,

Anyone know of casinos that run PLO4 OR 5 card in or around London. The Vic only seems to run PLO6 and I don't know anything about the other poker rooms in London. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks

Empire is on bravo, looks like the a running a PLO 456 1/2 game atm but I think everyone pretty much chooses 6 card, think it’s just the fashion now to play PLO 6 because of the demand. Used to see a 4 card PLO games going but not really any more I don’t think as everyone seems to want 6 card.

Cashed at the Venetian 2023 without a ITIN they withheld about $3k. Managed to apply for the ITIN myself the next tax year for a grand cost of zero. Just took a few hours research and filling in the forms correctly. You do need to send off your passport which isn't ideal but am lucky enough to be a dual citizen so didn't affect any travel plans. Got everything back and a cheque with the balance in about 7 weeks.

Interesting, issue is my with held amount is significantly lower so I would also have to apply myself to make it even worthwhile - the issue is my passport and after reseaching it isnt easy to get a temp passport and I cant be without it. But thanks for that because perhaps I dont need an agent - although I thought you needed one for the tax filing as only a certified agent could do this in the US?

Only a certified agent can copy your passport and verify its a true likeness. Nothing to stop you doing all the rest if you send your own passport. Nightmare i realise if only have one. Find a grandparent born in Ireland and get yourself a second.

If you fill all the forms in yourself and get the agent just to copy and certify your passport it could be substantially cheaper than them doing everything themselves.

Last weekend BPS200 at Genting Stratford was pretty good. £32K on top. I made it to the top 40 out of 905 being card dead and short the whole way ... either way, all the money is at that coveted final table, hopefully I'll make it there at some point in the near future.

One thing I found a bit tilting. Just before the start of day 2 (it was a two day event) they advertised on X some single table crazy pinapple single hand comp to get directly onto day 2 ... so basically you could play a single hand against 7 other players and luck it up with 200,000 in chips with BB at 6,000 onto day 2!!!!!!

Isn't that out of line from Genting??? It's certainly great for them to make £35 rake per player in 1 hand!

I've been living in Greenwich for 9 months and I've only just found out about the Eltham Terrace Club, fml. Will head down there next week and report back!

Just went there for the first time last night and left feeling extremely impressed. Very good dealers, would've been at home in a casino. Bunch of friendly regulars. Two dealers noticed me shuffling around on my own and took time to give me a friendly welcome. Big TVs in view of all the tables, drink prices respectable and so on. Helps that I took an ICM chop as chipleader with 4 of us left too! There were 2 cash tables on too, think they were £1/£2/£5 and playing deep.

Highly recommended if you live local and fancy a good game of cards in a more friendly local setting.

Does anyone know what the monthly Wednesday tournament at bayswater is on the poker live app it has this;

BCLRR 1-20 free, 21-30 £150 + £14, 31-40 £250 + £14, Anyone else £350 + £14

But no idea what this means?

Bayswater Cash League something something. It's their cash league playoff tournie. The top 20 in the league get in for free, those that finished in 21st to 30th can choose to play it for £164, 31st to 40th can play for £264 etc.

The August comp had 24 runners so only 4 chose to pay to play and the prize pool was £6654.

Typical locals comp outcome, they did a near-even chop 5 handed.

Cheers; didn't even know they ran cash there seems weird when the Vic is just round the corner

hi all,

where's the best spots to play in London these days for 2/5 deep+, 5/10+ hold em? Not been back in ages

Viv and Hippo are the only places which spread this games regulary. Hippo update on X often about tables running and Vic are on the Grosvenor Poker app which you can use to view whats running and join waiting lists(join at home and arrive within 1 hour to save time).

25/50 holdem has been running every day recently at The Hippo according to their Twitter feed.

Was even some 50/100 on Saturday, why they not getting that on the live stream instead of 5/10

Has anyone ever played a one-off game in a pub for more than the usual buy-in allowed?

We run a poker league that plays in a nationally run tournament and want to play a Xmas Party game for us at just £25 buy-in that includes the food. This buy in will also include a charity donation of 25% of the pot for a member who is going through a tough time medically.

Does anyone know where we would stand with this, we don’t want to get into trouble for just a one-off game to celebrate Xmas as a group and raise a hit of money for the chap’s chosen charity.

Appreciate any help/advice you can give?

IANAL.

As long as you only let a maximum of 4 people enter you'll be legal...

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-to-licensing-authorities/appendix-h-poker-games-and-prizes

Gambling Commission

Guidance to licensing authorities - Appendix H: Poker games and prizes

"The prize limit is £250 per game in a club and £100 per game in a pub."

The chances of getting caught for a one-off game in a regular venue must be vanishingly small.

Have been off the scene for a while, used to play empire, hippo, vic, Bayswater horseshoe 1/2 and occasional tournaments at vic + empire.

Curious about what the tournament scene is like these days, if anyone has any info? Prob looking at buyins of £50-£250