Detroit

Dude, c'mon you're fine. It's all the same vicinity, which is totally safe.

Source: Lived in the middle of this for the past 5 years. Walk all the time to the casino, w/ plenty of cash.

Hey all:

I was at MGM the other night.

I was playing 1/3. I think that I am not going to play that again. The amount of rake taken in that game is just "silly". It is $6+2. MGM also rounds up. MGM also has a LOT of poorly trained dealers and floor people. Once again, I got into an argument with perhaps the worst dealer I've ever had in 2 decades of playing poker.

There was $21 in the pot pre-flop. On the flop, I connected and bet $20. Pot is $21 + a $20 bet. Everybody else (2 players) fold. The dealer takes out $7 in rake and promotions. I challenge that, as I said the $20 bet was not called. Everybody folded! She said NO, the post is $41, I'm taking out $5 + $2 in promotions.

I go up to the floor (a new woman I've not seen before), and she is "confused" by the term "unanswered bet", I describe the events to her. She says the same thing, and can't understand that the $20 should not be raked....She is the only floor person there for a minute or two and I'm arguing with her. Another floor person comes up and wants to know what is going on. He has worked there a number of years. I explain it to him, and he sides with me. I am then REALLY angry. Why are dealers not trained properly? Why is the other floor manager NOT know the correct rules? Nobody has an answer for me.

I go back to the game. a couple/few hands pass. I'm not paying a ton of attention. Then there is another problem that other players are arguing about. Evidently, this is the 2nd hand in a row where the dealer is dealing cards to players who are NOT in their seat, and she then takes the cards when it is the missing player's turn to act. Some of the other players are arguing with her that she should NOT deal cards to somebody who is not in their seat (and not a second or two from being seated). She is arguing with them. I am just watching. Floor comes over and sets her straight.

Another few hands pass, and I'm out of the action. Showdown comes and the two players reveal their cards. One guy has a full house 666KK. The other play has TWO PAIR 10,10,K,K. The dealer mucks the player's cards with the full house, pushes the chips to the player with two pair. The guy with the full house is a NEW player and he starts stammering and looking around. I start objecting, another player also objects. The dealer then realizes the mistake and asks for the money back. She then tells me "chill out", she said she made a mistake and corrected it. I reply, yes, you are correct, but you've made NUMEROUS other mistakes in your 30 minutes.

OK, MGM has numerous other problems. The casino is starting to get dirty & run down. The drink stations are frequently dirty/disorganized (missing cup lids & such). Frequently out of ice, frequently out of syrup for Coke or other flavors.

The food court had a wait, but it was reasonably short. I got some Chinese food, and the quality was lower than I remembered it being in the past. Some of the food was not cooked all the way through.

MGM's parking structure is dirty, dirty, dirty. They are not running a cleaner over pavement, so there are stains & sticky spots everywhere. On the 4th level, a good number of lights on the East side of the structure are burned out/not working. The elevator bank in the middle of the structure has not been working for a few years, but there are NO signs saying they are broken/out of commission.

Some of the elevators in the main bank have busted operator panels. The ones that are busted now have clear plexiglass over them with a note saying it is broken and not to use.

Going back to poker, the rush was from about 9 PM till midnight. After 1 AM, it started to slow down considerably.

I am getting burned out. I want to have a reasonable chance to make some money, get out of my day to day grind, go to a nice place, eat a good meal, talk to decent people, have fun.

MGM is simply not providing the experience that I want to have. To be a "premier property", it needs to be clean. The physical plant needs to be in pretty good shape. The staff needs to be adequate and fully trained.

So I think I'll stop going to MGM. I'll go play at charity rooms or simply do something else entirely. If I have had bad experiences, I'm sure other players have also.

A lot going on there ..
1) Lots of rooms round up at 'the 7s' .. 27, 37, 47 for rake .. but you also have to have Dealers that know what's in the pot!
2) Although I would quickly adjust, 'unanswered' is not a poker term. You did put 'uncalled' in some text also .. much better terminology.

3) Floors not understanding rake drop is a surprise .. but yet there's Gaming Board Members who've never stepped foot into a casino also!
4) Lots of Rooms don't train as they would like to .. got a Gaming License? Here's your table is common place. They're just happy to have a body.

MGM is a union shop, it's very possible that both Floors and Dealers may come into a position due to seniority and without a full plate of knowledge.

5) It's very common for 'trained' Dealers to deal every seat at the table since most of them start out (or are trained) as tournament Dealers .. where every seat gets a hand. Yes, you'd think they could adjust and be more than willing to do less work, but I've even seen veteran Dealers slip into tournament mode from time to time.
6) Arguing with Players is certainly frowned upon. You don't know what they've been told as to when to call a Floor over. Shoot, they might even get penalized for Floor Calls or don't want to look bad to the Floors for 'simple' stuff.

7) It is sad to see a property slip. I'd have to look at the monthly reports I get from Gaming, but IMO live gaming is down from previous years or at least level. The first department that goes is usually 'service' positions that don't directly produce income for the facility. Who knows what executive is trying to cut costs for their bonus or what directive is coming down from MGM Corp. There's LOTS in a casino where employees have their hands tied to either Regulations or (poor) Corporate/Marketing directives.
8) Not sure how the action was or your style, but 1/3 is not really a place to 'grind' especially against the aforementioned rake structure and what is probably 3-5 short stacks looking for High Hands or AA/KK so they can double and leave.

9) I do think you'll have a better 'people' experience at a Charity Room. Since their Dealer pool is smaller you could assume that you will get a better poker experience. Not sure on food .. but Charity cash action has been outstanding this Summer and you'll find some deeper pockets since the only game offered is 1/2 or 1/3, thus forcing the deeper pockets to play smaller and typically they love to drive action.
10) Not sure how to help you with your overall experience expectations, but there's a lot of tongue biting that you need to do if you take poker seriously. Tournament poker is at an all-time high BUT the skill gap from newbie to Reg in cash games is a big as ever which can lead to games being stale IMO.

Overall .. When I'm at the table I lean towards 'discussion', not arguing. To some that may be one in the same, but every 'discussion' can be a learning moment for all. Call the Floor if you must 'at the time of the issue'. IMO the Dealer needs to know from the Floor as they will blow off a Player and do the same thing next time. GL

Hey all:

I was at MGM the other day, and put in a 7.75 hour session. It was a difficult/bumpy session, but I left a small winner.

It appears that MGM has made a little progress with the property. In the poker room, I called ahead and was seated fairly quickly when I got there.
The floor was reasonably good at seating players and consolidating tables. They were good at getting me a comp.

The food court had a small and reasonable wait around 10 PM. The food was decent, not great, but not bad either.

The parking structure still needs some repair & attention (non-working elevators, burned out lights, general cleaning needed).

The promotion stopped Friday PM at 8 PM. They still collected a $2/promo drop.

I started at a very tight table. As the night progressed, and players turned over, it got looser. Eventually it got pretty crazy late at night.

I was at the same table, and in the same seat for 90% of the session. Some of the amazing things was how many players either left completely busto (frequently going to ATM & still going busto) or losing a massive percentage of their roll. I would estimate that at least 2/3 of the players were losers on the night.

Another crazy thing was that there were 2 players who started off strong and made a LOT of money (turning $200 into $1,000+) and they eventually went bust.

Over time, the amount of money that leaves the table is simply incredible. The rake is high, and obviously takes the most. The promo drop is very high too of course. Then you've got tipping. Then you've got people getting drinks and paying for that out of their chips.

If you have 30 hands per hour, and the average rake is $4/hand, that is $120. Then you've got the promo drop, that is another $60. Then you've got tipping, that is maybe $45/hour. Then you've got drinks, maybe another $5/hour. So that is easily $225/hour. I was there almost 8 hours, so that is about $1,800. That accounts for a lot of the losers right there.

I wonder how many of the people who lost will NOT come back? Of course, a single loss probably won't stop very many people....but how many people will keep playing poker if the lose 5 out of 6 times that they play? I don't know, but I think the house may be overextending themselves in taking so much $ off the table. Eventually, they are going to run out of players?

The poker room was very busy, there were over 10 1/3 tables running for over 8 hours. There were a handful of 1/3 PLO and some 2/5 and 1 5/10.

The room may have been bringing in about $4,000 an hour. They did that for perhaps 10 hours? Then another 8 hours at $2,000 an hour. So on a Friday/Saturday, they might easily bring in $70k per day. Of course, they've got to pay the dealers, floor people, cashiers and so on. HOWEVER, I would be shocked if their expenses on the weekend are more than 50%.

Anyways, just some observations....I am worried that the future of poker will not be as good as it's past.

I remember the outrage at 5 dollar rake when Greektown first opened. It's 1-3 those tables will be filled as long as poker remains somewhat popular. If this is long term career or income, you need to move up. This was true 20 years ago as it was now, 1-3 players don't care about rake.

It shows you a member since 2013 but not sure if you're just returning to poker or not ..

1) It's very standard to take the Promo drop 'all the time' .. it can vary per room, but this is pretty much the case even during non-HH time frames. Of course MGM now falls into the 'worst' category since they dropped the BBJ.

2) The Promo drop is not 'very' high .. casino's typically take one or two chips after $20 is in the middle. With the Promo being an additional 40% on top of full rake it certainly does impact chips being taken off the table 'very' much.

3) Once again with the tipping .. $45 being taken off the table does have an impact for sure. I assume that's not just your total? If so then we can safely assume that you are playing too much or tipping well above the average Player (or both). It's pretty certain that you won't find too many Dealers that wouldn't be happy with an average tip rate of $45/hour either!

4) While I think you're a little high on the $4K/hour, you're still making a good point of how much $$ comes off the tables during peak play. But remember that the casino gets the rake 'only' (and profit on food/alcohol). The Promo doesn't go to the casino .. the casino only manages it for the Players. And the tips (are supposed to) do directly to the employees.

5) It would be interesting to see if 3 of the 9 Players at the table end up 'winners'. I actually consider a break even session a 'win' since you have to consider the exact factors you mention coming off the table each hour. I always joke with the Players that when I'm losing it's just my day 'to pay the rake'.

6) As suggested above .. it would be very difficult for a Player to 'make a living' at the lowest stake offered in a casino. Obv you have different versions of 'a living' and IMO it's no impossible in the Detroit area due to the vast Player pool. But most people look at an hourly rate as well as their ability to earn enough to cover their living budget. That's the crucks, there's a few Posters on this site that do well enough with poker but also have a spouse who provides the health insurance side of the equation.

7) It's a great discussion on the viability of poker. I think that poker's fate is in the hands of those who don't necessarily have a rooting interest in it. You see both Greektown and MCC closing their rooms. You also have Firekeepers drastically dropping Player benefits, which immediately had an impact on their 'busy-ness'. Gun Lake has continually modified their policies as it comes to poker.

Glad to see someone posting some updates .. hopefully you can continue some good sessions and possibly move up when your bankroll allows you to do so. GL

Finally got back to MGM .. not sure exactly how long it had been, but they told me my comps 'never' expire in the Poker Room.

Got seated at the 1st PLO table and played from 10am to 6pm .. two other PLO tables were up and running by Noon with large lists due to the $500 twenty minute HH Promo that started at 11 or Noon. Great action all day with very little Player turnover until after 2pm or so. By 6pm there was only two of us from the original 8-handed start.

I should've gone to the Tiger game for $29, but listening on the ride home was plenty good .. something I don't get to do for more than an inning or two most games.

The remodeled food court looks nice. I did get some dinner (didn't open until 5pm on Wed) and the service was very quick with no waiting at cashier. I'm not sure where the other food option is located in the casino as a Floor told me it was open before 10am but I ended up with a couple items from The Brew not wanting to miss out on the 1st hand at the table.

As it turns out the game didn't start until about 1020am and even then the Dealer was saying "I'm not starting this game." Not sure if he was serious or not, but his attitude was somewhat similar to other Dealers that came through. It's very obvious that they are not motivated to get max hands out with the sharing of the tips in play. I think there was only 2 Dealers who had some issue with calculating the pot .. and only 1 Dealer who almost made a major error in sorting out the pots in a very large hand .. giving too much change to a covering Player when there was still HU action going to the Turn.

Overall not much change to Players, Floors or action .. and being able to eat in the room again is GREAT. I'm going to make an attempt to get down there again 'soon'. GL

Hey all:

I was at MGM the other night.

I got there a little later than what I was planning...but I called ahead and got seated within 10 minutes of checking in. The floor seems to be doing a better job of filling seats and managing players.

At first, my table was pretty tight, much like other recent previous sessions.

HOWEVER, as time progressed and it got later at night...people were drinking, smoking, getting tired (making mistakes) and desperately wanting to gamble.

For example, there was a rather prosperous young man, who wanted to gamble. He started betting $100/hand blind. Of course, most of the time, everybody folded. A couple of times people called and he cracked them! He ran up quite a bit of $$$$$, close to $1,000. This was at the 1/3 table.

He then switched over to simply playing his hand blind until showdown. He sometimes would start off with relatively small bets, say $40 on the flop & river, then going in for $100 or $200 on the river (while still blind). Many people folded to him.

Eventually though, his luck did not hold and I got the last $300 of his money. He was a little rough around the edges, but in the end, a pretty good guy. While he didn't like losing, he was there to gamble! When he busted, he went to play blackjack, and a couple of people followed him. Ultimately, he was good for the game.

MGM is also going to start a new promotion where if you play 30 hours, you will get a $30 gift card. For every 10 hours after that, you will get another $10.

As I play close to 8 hours on SAT. I will take advantage of this promotion by coming in on a couple of weekdays and maybe a couple of Sundays. Would be nice to get a $40 or $50 gas card.

Also, for the first time I've ever seen, a fight came to blows. One of the fighter dropped his chip tray and chips went everywhere in the hallway in front of the elevator bank. People were scrambling from their seats to get the chips. How stupid is that? The floor talked with many players later that night...

One of the guys got knocked to the floor. I was surprised how long it took security to show up and break up the fight.

Overall, I had a good night. Looking forward to October.

Hey Detroit Players .. Don't forget that MSPT is coming very soon to FKeepers. I think 'daily' Sattys start this Friday and run through even the following Friday. It's a long way on Sunday to really profit from this tournament, but the cash games are excellent if you bust. GL

Hiya,

I'm moving from Nevada to Novi in May. 80% of my income comes from tournaments. Is there a viable scene out there for MTTS? I see online is regulated which could be an option too.

Hope I'm not a bother
Thanks

There isn't much around anymore. Firekeepers, Reserve in Toledo, Empire in Toledo, a couple of charity rooms... not much else as far as tournaments.

You are SOL. To be fair though one of the biggest stop on MSPT tour is at Firekeepers which is on the other side of the state. There are charity rooms but they have to take out 20-25% and are super turbos. Only one out of the three casinos downtown have poker and that one doesn’t run them.

Toledo runs poker “social” clubs sorta how Texas does it. It’s on the up and up, but you have to pay membership fees. They have some big guarantees but also has 20 min blinds and rebuys.

Yes .. err NO .. Detroit isn't a tournament 'area' other than the Charity Rooms. Search for Millionaire Party Locator and it will list the Charities in the Locations they operate. Most Charity tournaments are $35-80 with the occasional $125-200 'monthly'.

Firekeepers hosts the largest non-Vegas MSPT stop ($1100) twice a year (May and Oct). They also have decent Sat pm and Sun 'day' tournaments throughout the year. Usually rotating $100/200. They have a quarterly freeroll leaderboard that ultimately could land you in the yearly freeroll based on points. They also have a $500 if there is a 5th Sunday in any month. The Sunday can draw from 80-200 with more for the 500.

Toledo offers both casino and 'member' tournament options but I'm not too informed on them.

Novi is a tough spot to drive from for poker IMO. You may have to settle for online events which there are LOTS of .. WSOPc Rings monthly and more. I'm a cash guy but the Players that do both don't seem to complain too much about the offerings with some of the larger weekday events only drawing 30-40 entries?

Is there poker in Michigan? Yes for sure and well above average for other states .. casino, charity room, home games and online. You'll just have to find what works for you from Novi. GL

fyi the "club fees" in Toledo are nominal.