I am starting a poker room- what should I include? What should I not include?
I have the opportunity to open a private invitational and fully legit room.
I know what I'd want in a room but I'd love to hear your thoughts to make it incredibly good for players as an experience.
Here are some things so far:
- massage girls
- smoke-free / air purifyers
- luxury chairs
- well trained dealers
- free beer, some liquor free
- luxurious private decor
- security guy
Cameras - do we need? This is invitational and private so nobody likely to cheat. Would you ever play at a game without cameras??
Also rake - what do you prefer? Obviously we need a profit but please tell me what rakes you like and hate
Thanks!!!
This is my biggest concern. But partners do not want cameras - think exclusivity and privacy.
Maybe we can get by with a good manager and few staff, high end clients who won't steal
Think about the real reason they do not want cameras and look into your liability if you are the front man for a group of thieves. BTW NEVER make it so the cameras are viewable in real time from a phone as you are colluding in the cheating when you do.
If I have to give an answer of the most important thing that poker room managers need to understand, it's the idea that successful poker games require "a proper balance of luck and skill." This is also something that I feel very few poker room managers have even a minimal understanding of.
Mason
Just curious. How might a new poker room go about studying and solving this? Might this require advanced math?
This forum has many players who have played for 20+ years and people who have been in the industry on the dealer/floor side of things for just as long. I think it's great that he's coming here and trying to get ideas for the best way to run a poker room. Obviously this isn't going to be his only form of research but why not get info from such a group?
I've also been a player for 20+ years.
I know some will throw shade regardless.😀
If I have to give an answer of the most important thing that poker room managers need to understand, it's the idea that successful poker games require "a proper balance of luck and skill." This is also something that I feel very few poker room managers have even a minimal understanding of.
Mason
I'm going to assume you mean:
a balance of good reg players and rec bad players
maybe 70% bad, and 30% good
or even 20% bad and 80% decent
am i close?
I think he means "you can shear a sheep multiple times, but skin it only once." If bad players go broke too fast, the room dies. This is why things like table maximums and betting limits exist. These private rooms tend to be uncapped and wild, make a ton of money for the organizers and regs at first, and then die, often because they give credit to folks who end up going broke and not paying.
So you need to offer games that allow bad players to survive long enough and get lucky often enough that they stay in the game.
I'm going to assume you mean:
a balance of good reg players and rec bad players
maybe 70% bad, and 30% good
or even 20% bad and 80% decent
am i close?
No. Here's what I mean. Assume your players play four hour sessions. The best players will win two out of three times. The recreation players will win one out of three times. And the occasional terrible players will never win.
When you achieve this what will happen is that the recreational players will lose the maximum over the long run since they'll keep playing and the expert players will also do well in the long run. And, most important, the games will last a long time.
Again, see my book for more discussion.
Mason
I think he means "you can shear a sheep multiple times, but skin it only once." If bad players go broke too fast, the room dies. This is why things like table maximums and betting limits exist. These private rooms tend to be uncapped and wild, make a ton of money for the organizers and regs at first, and then die, often because they give credit to folks who end up going broke and not paying.
So you need to offer games that allow bad players to survive long enough and get lucky often enough tha
This is exactly right.
And, ironically, when this is achieved, the rec players will lose the maximum in the long run because they'll always have incentive to keep playing.
Mason
Lots of feedback here .. some pretty standard, some pretty 'interesting'
The most important item has been hit on .. As 1A the Floor/Manager has to be able to balance the Room Policies with the 'walking the line' Player expectations/desires which are somewhat unrealistic at times.
Competent Dealers come in as 1B, nothing turns Players off more than a fumbling/slow Dealer who wont 'professionally' keep control of the table while still trying to maintain tip flow.
.. Balance rake/time collection with the Room offerings. Some Rooms/Home Games offer 'comp' food/drink but it's obv covered in the rake. IMO a snack table and 'free' drinks/coffee are a must.
.. Cash or Credit .. or both? In that double edged sword, 'up' Players want their money and 'down' Players want to pay tomorrow (or try to win it back in the next session) If Credit, then DO NOT just let the Dealer hand out chips without first getting the OK from Floor/Host. Lots of he said she said when it comes to that issue.
.. 8 or 9 handed .. allow RITw/Th .. allow 'deals' .. Straddle Rules .. Bomb Pots .. Stakes/add-ons .. 10-handed for VIP/Whales?
.. Sturdy tables, but nothing too special .. most Players don't like 'runway' tables. HAND SHUFFLE, auto is a hassle you don't want. Make sure it's not a huge task for Dealer to pull in chips from the ends.
.. One room I play in has every other chair with arms, which creates a natural separation from Player to Player. ADJUSABLE HEIGHT is very high on my list. Be prepared with some alternate chairs for Players who don't like rollers or 'rocking' features. Obv the ratio of table size to chair size is a balancing act, but if 8-handed then it gets easier.
.. Either lots of deck turnover or just pay for good decks. Talk to your Dealer about this for sure. Don't use Bridge cards and do use 'medium' font sizes. One place I play has cards that are easily marked .. but they are all marked in some fashion so it's a non-talking point.
.. WHO controls the lineup .. and especially the starting lineup and what are the policies for 'next session' 'Rooms' operate pretty much daily while 'Home Games' don't, so there are probably different methods to handling those issues.
.. CAMERAS are pretty much a must these days .. and I tend to agree that you may not want Players in the game that refuse to play with them. Security, theft/cheating by 'anyone'. If you are operating a (for profit) 'Room' then you need them but if it's more of a 'Location' with a Home Game feel, then you can probably lean the other way.
The ULTIMATE concept for a Room is consistency .. and it starts with 1A .. Floor/Host/Manager who either are themselves or are implementing the dynamic that the owner/operator wants them to bring forth. GL
If you are running poker yes it is necessary. The reason it is necessary in poker is the advantage a good player has over bad players is so large that if you are raking so much the good players do not profit the bad players go broke too quickly.
How does the rake affect bad players? If they are bad, they aren't paying much.
They run out of money faster because the pots they win are smaller. Lower rake games also should theoretically play a little looser so the games are also less fun, although you will often see at high rake environments people still play pretty loose so it’s overall negligible but still a factor imo.
You might argue that the bad players, since they do play poorly, will lose their money anyway. But the rake, especially if it's high, will also turn marginal players into losers, and then the poker room will in time often lose these customers.
I would actively avoid a room that used poker/jumbo cards. Bridge cards are where it’s at.
can someone eli5 bridge/poker cards - what are the standard bicycle cards everyone buys at the store?
Difference is 1/4".
It's not even right to call this controversial, in the sense that it does not represent a bunch of upvotes and downvotes that cancel each other out. It's a very specific and contrarian personal preference that is shared by nearly nobody.
OP is asking how best to serve the greater, not the [strike]few[/strike] you.
Holy crap I always wondered why I hated dealing with cards at home. This explains so much. I feel dumb now lol
Bridge cards >>>>>
Not to derail the thread...but we've gone through several different suppliers in the last 25 or so years and once had a manager order poker sized cards. It did not go well.
