Road back to HS PLO
ABOUT ME:
My screenname is portemilio. I've been playing Poker since I was 16. I started off playing poker on Runescape gambling sites where you'd buy coins ingame which had a $ value and deposit them on runescape poker sites. I found myself obsessed with the game since I was young. I specifically loved the HU format. At 16 i ran up 100$ to 20k when BTC was around 1.4k playing 6 max and 9max nlhe but ultimately got destroyed headsup because i lacked a lot of discipline and had major ego issues wanting to be the best. I always wanted to be the best and would get extremely angry when dealing with variance on top of the fact that I was an unstudied player. In college I transitioned to PLO. I got staked and coached but I wasn't winning no matter how hard I tried because of my serious BRM issues. I'd run up a couple of thousand dollars then instantly shot take 5/10 and lose it all and then go back to the lowest stakes to rebuild, rinse, and repeat. My senior year of college I decided I really wanted to give it my all. In class I'd bring my laptop and drill spots and this was the first form of studying I'd ever experienced (other than hundreds of hours of youtube videos and poker content that I consume). I significantly saw a change in my game. I've always been a highly intuitive player but with the baseline theory I developed I quickly skyrocketed though the ranks. I still had really poor mental game and not great BRM but I was able to run up my first 30k ish month in April of 2022. Unfortunately, I lost it all back shot taking 10/20 on ACR (very commend trend in my poker career). I had to take6 a fifth year of college because of a couple of other reasons but I always knew I was going to end up being a poker player. I dreaded school and felt it was the reason I wasn't succeeding because I still had to commit so many hours to school (studying Mechanical Engineering with a minor in Fluid Mechanics). I come from an Arab household and poker was not accepted at all but that didn't deter me. My fifth year I had the same routine where I'd study in class and play countless hours when I was back. I was also gaming a lot (League) so i decided to cut that out because I figured it was a waste of time if I really wanted to succeed. After I graduated (May 2022) I moved to Lebanon where my parents lived. I finally had no obligations, nothing holding me back and barely any expenses. I devoted all my time to poker (literally 15h days). After 6 months playing 1/2 - 10/20 on mainly bovada and BOL I made roughly 170k in profits. My mental health really suffered. I longed for social interaction; I had none of my friends in Lebanon and I started to not care about poker anymore. My health declined heavily and I felt despite the fact that I was winning that there was a constant judgement surrounding what I was doing. Once I showed my parents how much money I was making they couldn't complain about the journey I was decided to take ( as much anyways) but they were still greatly against it. My biggest mistake came when I decided to shot take 10/20 on Bovada. I was absolutely crushing Betonline and Bovada midstakes for atleast 8bb/100 over a sample of 400k+ hands, but when I played 10/20 nothing I did worked. I got absolutely crushed. My mental game was very strong at this point and I wasn't disheartened, I just figured it was variance. I ended up losing 45 ish buy ins (90k) running 70k below EV. This was almost 2/3 of my roll. I had heard rumors about collusion and cheating rings going on at 10/20 Bovada but I just figured that was bad regs crying about losing because the same was being said about every stake that I was consistently beating. I will never know if I actually got cheated as I have no definitive proof but I highly highly suspect that I did. At this point despite convincing myself that the loss of the money didn't affect me in reality my play began to change because nothing I did was working so I thought i had to deviate. I ended up going to EPT Barcelona in 2023 because I felt the need to prove to myself and everyone that what I was doing was a real job. I had around 50k to my name. I ended up losing 20k there playing 25/50 live (brm issues started coming back I really began to chase what I lost). Once I returned back to the US, started paying rent I prolonged into a 4 month period of break even/losing. I really thought at the time I was playing well I dont know maybe it was variance but looking back at it I had basically given up. I was playing 3h a day max and not putting in any volume at all (20k hands/month max). I'm using this 2+2 thread to hold myself accountable. I'm not going to give up on poker because I know I truly have a talent. I'm at a crossroads right now because im 24 and have little to no job experience so If I want to get a real 9-5 I'd really have to start looking now. I have a couple interviews with some investment banks just to appease my parents but it isn't something I'm taking seriously. On top of that it's really hard to explain to friends and family the journey I've been on because they don't understand variance at all. I'm not saying I didn't make any mistakes I definetly did, but to lose that amount of money is definetly gut wrenching I finally made it and saw it gone at the blink of an eye. I have a lot of fuel in me now and I'm ready to play atleast 50k hands/month. I'm not going to let anyone pressure me or feel the need to prove to anyone (online or IRL) that what I'm doing is valid, I'm just going to do it. It may get lonely but this is truly what I love and I know i will get rewarded.
I'm going to attach this month's results. I had very little money to my name, I moved to my uncles house where I'm paying no rent and felt a lot less pressure on my bankroll. I started at .5/1 and 1/2 and slowly started to shot take 2/5 and very little 5/10 volume. I played almost 72k hands this month, which is the most volume I've ever put in in a month in my life. Attached is the graph. Eventually when I fix my old computer I'll export the DB to my new one and merge them. I will be posting interesting hands and lines I play here as well as weekly-monthly updates. I want to hold myself accountable no matter what and am interested to hear people's thoughts. I only have the last two months of my play tracked I'll post them shortly as I had to buy a new computer
GL ME!
JJT8, weird line from him, think ur play is okay ish. Check back turn also reasonable. If you’re suspicious maybe I prefer a check back because he could rip some combo equity and push you off your hand.
These turn spots IP in 3b pot after calling cbet is always a close trade off between equity realisation or bluffing.
The main principle is, are we being denied a lot of eq if we get jammed on? Do we have blockers to the c jam range?
It will be close for many of our hands. Reads are extremely helpful in this spot which is something you’re good at.
QJT7, don’t love this bet.
Flop interacts well with sb range but most players in this pool will not have much leads there so they have plenty of strong hands.
You do poor vs check raise. I think it’s a nice combo to check back, helps that range a lot too
this was one of the first hands on the table so didnt really have info on the opponent. this seems like a good hand to call but i took the more passive spot since im probably gonna have some straights in my range, but this is probably one of the better bluff catchers i should call in theory unblocking clubs and blocking a queen
This could be my 5c bias but is this turn call std? Seems loose. River with no reads kinda seems like a fold too. Calling every 2p with a Q is a lot of hands.
I do think the ev of a lot of those marginal bluff catchers is quite close so it’s not my only decision point.
we are 200bb deep i open mp co 3b i call. flop 982 rb i lead 3/4 with qqt8 2 bdfd he snap calls. turn is a 2 i check he pretty quickly bets 1/2, i call, and river comes a brick and he bets 1/3 . idk i wsa thinking about it on river when he snap calls flop i feel like he has less aces than usual and is more draw heavy. or it could be aces + trips or aces + pair. not sure thought ab calling but i ended on a fold. i think i block too many draws ill check what we had tomorrow. probably trips imo
Tough one.
Seems ok to fold. Probably quite close.
Regarding AQ63ds. Let’s not talk about the river.
I think on the flop the raise is not bad but I feel like it does not come from a place of true understanding and is a bit random aggression. I like to pull up this kind of spot in trainer and work out exactly the then follow up lines after check raising to really master the spot.
Btw regarding A765ds, I actually don’t like the 4bet.
It’s not a bad combo in theory. But you need some FE to make a 4b good. I don’t think people limp/3b and then fold sb v bb in this pool right?
With little to no FE what’s the point? Better to maintain deeper SPR IP.
A567 like the flop check. Whenever you can check back a hand deep in 4b pot that’s not aces it’s great for ur range.
Agree with ur turn analysis. Two fds and a bunch of SDs is so much equity that jam is very std but if we read into the opponent and have no FE call is actually better.
obv fold eq is important but also having good board coverage in 4b pots 200bb deep across various boards is good. the hand is super playable IP, and in theory is a pure 4b anyways, so i dont really agree with what youre saying on that end. I dont like to deviate too much preflop unless i have a 100% read, and even if he does 5 bet its just an easy call, IP with 1.3 spr ish the hand just plays itself usually.
Regarding AQ63ds. Let’s not talk about the river.
I think on the flop the raise is not bad but I feel like it does not come from a place of true understanding and is a bit random aggression. I like to pull up this kind of spot in trainer and work out exactly the then follow up lines after check raising to really master the spot.
hmmm i actually didnt look at the sim for this, but i actually do think i understand the theory behind it- i think having two BDFDs makes it a better call because we do have playability - but its just a hand that also doesnt play THAT well on a lot of runouts, so i didnt mind in real time vs what i thought was a weaker cbet and an agro opponent to just take it down now. Its probably not a xr, id rather use a more polar hand like aq55. I think random spurts of aggresion also make u a bit unpredictable. this guy clearly got induced to call and float because he thought i was ****ing around, which ended up biting me in the ass so it kind of becomes a leveling war. Thats when the game becomes fun imo because now me and him can really start going at it but i agree with u this specific hand ( and why i posted it) was definetly too loose, gotta brush up on this spot for sure. I think id rather pure raise this hand with 0 BDFD, mix regular BDFD, and pure call BDNFD and 2BFD, probably how id go about in the future
This could be my 5c bias but is this turn call std? Seems loose. River with no reads kinda seems like a fold too. Calling every 2p with a Q is a lot of hands.
I do think the ev of a lot of those marginal bluff catchers is quite close so it’s not my only decision point.
I actually talked to one of my friends who plays hu full time HS, he agrees with you i think i overestimated the value of this hand. He pretty confidently told me turn call is super close but river call is just pure fold we have so many better hands, and he told me that the 7 is a really bad card to have because it blocks a lot of bluffs
obv fold eq is important but also having good board coverage in 4b pots 200bb deep across various boards is good. the hand is super playable IP, and in theory is a pure 4b anyways, so i dont really agree with what youre saying on that end. I dont like to deviate too much preflop unless i have a 100% read, and even if he does 5 bet its just an easy call, IP with 1.3 spr ish the hand just plays itself usually.
You know this range much better than me so you’re probably right.
But just some food for thought
Let’s say A765ds is a pure 4b in gto. How big do you think the ev difference is? 1bb ish?
Does that assume our opponent folds sometimes pre to 4b? Even if it is just 10% FE, 10% of 12bb pre is 1.2bb in ev
What do you think your edge is, as a more exploitative reads based player in 200bb 3b pots IP? In a pot of 18bb, how much ev do you think you gain from the situation?
Relative to getting a 4b in pre, which reduces the SPR and therefor diminishes ur positional advantage.
Re Aq63, well you got him to put in a ton of money with total bananas so it seems like a great line. So it’s a line I would experiment with seeking out as much as possible in that pool, but just understanding the turn and river play really wel so you can navigate the situation best. I like to get an understanding of not just the solver play but the actual ev for each line on turn/river. That understanding helps a lot with adjusting our ranges.
I actually talked to one of my friends who plays hu full time HS, he agrees with you i think i overestimated the value of this hand. He pretty confidently told me turn call is super close but river call is just pure fold we have so many better hands, and he told me that the 7 is a really bad card to have because it blocks a lot of bluffs
In theory it doesn’t seem anything close to a call. So maybe you marked the hand because you correctly picked up on something?
Here’s where I like understanding the ev of calldowns. Maybe top 2+Q is a pure call. And this a pure fold. But maybe the difference is just a few bbs? And your reads could in some cases far outweigh that.
Or maybe the call is -10bb and you can say wel it’s really hard for reads to make up for that difference.
I also like getting into turn ranges here to understand the get to river range better. How many bluffs should they have? How many bluffs do they have if they bet 75% of their AA/QQ?
You know this range much better than me so you’re probably right.
But just some food for thought
Let’s say A765ds is a pure 4b in gto. How big do you think the ev difference is? 1bb ish?
Does that assume our opponent folds sometimes pre to 4b? Even if it is just 10% FE, 10% of 12bb pre is 1.2bb in ev
What do you think your edge is, as a more exploitative reads based player in 200bb 3b pots IP? In a pot of 18bb, how much ev do you think you gain from the situation?
Relative to getting a 4b in pre, whi
I don't understand this stuff as well you guys, but doesn't the 4bet assume that sb has a balanced limp rr strategy? Realistically he will probably be more weighted to AA combinations if I had to guess.
Also, adding to what Crimson said, this is one the spots where I like to uncheck the hide 0% combos box in plotrainer so that I can see the ev difference.
I don't understand this stuff as well you guys, but doesn't the 4bet assume that sb has a balanced limp rr strategy? Realistically he will probably be more weighted to AA combinations if I had to guess.
Also, adding to what Crimson said, this is one the spots where I like to uncheck the hide 0% combos box in plotrainer so that I can see the ev difference.
ehhh the people that are limp raising from sb usually know what therye doing, its usually the people that limp from utg with aces that are fish and when u get 4b its like always aces. but if i had to guess yes it might be more weighted towards aces but still not 100% (he had aq88 ds, And called a 4b with it, which is standard in gto land). Again, i dont like making too many assumptions preflop since ive seen some crazy ****. One thing that i agreed that crimson mentioned is "isnt the ev of calling and playing a 3b pot ip deeper just higher". Id have to think about that but 4b pots are also a part of the game tree that a lot of people might be messing up, so theres EV in playing huge pots where people are making mistakes as well (not leading enough, not betting enough, too passive etc). Theres a lot of bluffing and leading in 4b pots that people dont do, so it goes both ways. in the preflop sim tho calling and 4betting are relatively similar EVs though. just depends! like i said before, its more for board coverage and stacking people on boards that they might not expect i hit
Yeah it’s a really good point people def play very poor, straightforward/face up in deep 4b pots. Also a nice line to get into.
here are this months results (starting oct 16th)
Ran super hot. There was a pretty big learning curve just getting used to the game again at 2/5. My winrate went from like 20bb first 10k hands to 6bb, so i definetly punted a lot at 2/5. Once i started playing 5/10 I think I was more confident/comfortable again. Volume is fine considering I rlly only started playing 6h+ days on the 20th.
YTD results since April (before my laptop with my other data broke) + 2 months off ish in June/July/Aug.
Running EV overall which is nice
i simply cannot lose i am running so fkn hot.
3b pot co vs btn 200bb deep ish
flop q73 2t, he x i x, turn 2, he x i bet 3/4 he tank pots i rejam. I think in theory this is what solver does ( i saw a similar spot to this but lower spr) because opponents are supposed to ahve bluffs here but when he tank jams turn its sos value heavy i shud just call . tough spot tbh dont lose to that much value esp w a queen. ill lyk what he had once i get some feedback 😃
mp (fish) opens, i call btn (loose but fish opened), sb calls bb calls. flop a67 2t, i x sb x bb x fish bets 1/2 i call on btn and sb jams, big blind folds MP folds , do we have to call off here vs his range? it looks like a snap call but idk how well were doing here
one might say this is a pretty good week in the 5/10 streets!
mp (fish) opens, i call btn (loose but fish opened), sb calls bb calls. flop a67 2t, i x sb x bb x fish bets 1/2 i call on btn and sb jams, big blind folds MP folds , do we have to call off here vs his range? it looks like a snap call but idk how well were doing here
I would say v easy stack off. Did quick calculation and at worst you have ~36% equity vs his range but probably way more on average.
3b pot co vs btn 200bb deep ish
flop q73 2t, he x i x, turn 2, he x i bet 3/4 he tank pots i rejam. I think in theory this is what solver does ( i saw a similar spot to this but lower spr) because opponents are supposed to ahve bluffs here but when he tank jams turn its sos value heavy i shud just call . tough spot tbh dont lose to that much value esp w a queen. ill lyk what he had once i get some feedback 😃
Thats a really tough one. What do u think people usually have here?
I like a flopbet here sometimes this deep. You can bomb spade turns and apply more pressure to his range. This deep he will raise the flop quite strong and the hands that do generally have you crushed so you don't get denied that much eq.
totally fine to check, but i think it can be easy to play this spot too passive and bet too polarised and not utilise the situation to apply pressure enough
Not playing plo anymore but i remember always got excited when i picked up the nfd on turn with tp only to find out i am against a set. Obv i can be biased and not a good plo reg in the brief time i tried to learn the game
