Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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30518 Replies
Do you think the way Israel is handling this war is making the above issue better or worse…?
Do you think the way some political parties in the west comment Israel actions in this war make the issue better or worse?
If a victim of rape kills his rapist, there are different ways of framing the issue in public opinion but only one is right: doing everything possible to make the victim of rape look as good as it could and the murder of the rapist as justified as possible, no matter what actually happened.
That is, if you want less rape to happen.
Do you think the way Israel is handling this war is making the above issue better or worse…?
It shouldn't matter? Unless you think Jews around the world deserve to be attacked based on anything Israel does?
Or maybe the media coverage of Israel is giving people cover to carry out their antisemetic attacks under the guise of "these people support Israel"
31% of Americans think israel is going too far according to the pew research October poll. Not 90% like this thread, not even 50%. 31%
28% of Jews say Israel is going to far. Not much different than other Americans. Yet American Jews are being targeted at higher rates than ever
And you ask me if Israel's actions are helping?
Sorry cross that is a disgusting question
I told you exactly why I mentioned it. I dont see how this guy applies to this thread.
why are you mentioning it in this thread?
It shouldn't matter? Unless you think Jews around the world deserve to be attacked based on anything Israel does?
Or maybe the media coverage of Israel is giving people cover to carry out their antisemetic attacks under the guise of "these people support Israel"
31% of Americans think israel is going too far according to the pew research October poll. Not 90% like this thread, not even 50%. 31%
28% of Jews say Israel is going to far. Not much different than other Americans. Yet American Jews
as evidence of actionable antisemitism against Jews in America...you brought up a murder of Isreali in UAE?
Israel occupies less than 1% of the land in the Middle East. Grubby Jews stealing land! How detached from reality can you get? Lmao!
It shouldn't matter? Unless you think Jews around the world deserve to be attacked based on anything Israel does?
Or maybe the media coverage of Israel is giving people cover to carry out their antisemetic attacks under the guise of "these people support Israel"
31% of Americans think israel is going too far according to the pew research October poll. Not 90% like this thread, not even 50%. 31%
28% of Jews say Israel is going to far. Not much different than other Americans. Yet American Jews
You have in this very thread demanded pledges of allegiance to Israel from fellow Jews and you’ve called liberal Jews who do not support the war fake self-hating Jews. It is your own insistence that every Jew is associated with Israel that puts Jews in the diaspora at risk when Israel behaves this poorly. The question is directly related to your own claims.
Do you think America’s extended war in Iraq and Afghanistan made the international community think better or worse of us? People do eventually judge the goals and consequences of wars.
they flat out say that they want to remove the Arabs from all of Palestine as well as much of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria and annex it. I take them at their word on this one.
And the other side says the same ****. It’s been going on for nearly 100 years. This conflict will not end until all combatants on both sides are dead.
More dead people won’t help. Ceasefires work when there are deliberate exchanges of escalating acts of trust. Start small, establish of track record of trustworthiness, build good will, gradually go to larger more important issues.
Israel occupies less than 1% of the land in the Middle East. Grubby Jews stealing land! How detached from reality can you get? Lmao!
Yup , one of the dummest comments ever .
Look at Russia with Crimea and the new territories that will be annexed to Russia .
It’s nothing as well right ?
You a Russian agent or what ?
Israel expanded way more then 1% .
Nice try tho with ridiculous framing by using Middle East territories as a whole .
More dead people won’t help. Ceasefires work when there are deliberate exchanges of escalating acts of trust. Start small, establish of track record of trustworthiness, build good will, gradually go to larger more important issues.
Can't allow Hamas (or similar entities) to eve rebuild any capacity to strike.
It would be folly to even risk a 1% chance in the next 50 years of another 10 7.
You need a complete guarantee that can't ever happen again.
Not goodwill, not a chance, not an option, a guarantee.
No 10 7 can happen from Gaza in its current state. Any future state would require the same to hold to be acceptable to Israel.
And to allies of Israel like me and many others living in western countries.
Never again means NEVER AGAIN AT ANY COST. Any cost.
Any action is fully morally justified to achieve that outcome.
Never. Again.
Chezlaw brought it up
The rise in antisemitism around the world is 100% relevant to this thread even if you pretend it isn't
Criticizing Israel's military actions isn't antisemitic - but the criticism could be rooted in that. I think those distinctions really need to be separated more than they are. But this war seems to have definitely blurred the lines for those who hate Jews to hop on the wagon to help set the tone against Israel, which certainly increases the risk to Jews around the world.
But there is no getting around the fact that the reckless aggression from Israel's military leaders has played a role in increasing the hatred towards Israel, and to help normalize some of the opinions from the stormfronter/neonazi types who are enjoying watching this ****. I think it can both be said that Israel's leaders are some evil mother****ers, same with Hamas, and that hatred shouldn't be characterized and assigned with the people living around them.
...Which makes it lol to think that these two entities of horseshit could ever reach an agreement.
Criticizing Israel military actions without giving any alternative course that would guarantee the fully justified military goals Israel has is antisemitism.
Disagreeing with Israel right to guarantee at any cost it can't be a target of terror attacks is antisemitism.
If a terrorist is assassinated with x collateral damage victims the only possible criticism is that which points to another way which would have guaranteed the death of the terrorist anyway, but with lower collateral damage.
To my knowledge, no body criticizes Israel in that way.
Israeli anger at 'irresponsible and hasty' ceasefire
Benjamin Netanyahu presented the ceasefire deal in the context of what he said were Israel’s “unprecedented achievements” over the past year of a seven-front war.
He said Israel had set Hezbollah back “tens of years” and that it was not the same group it had been before.
There was a lot of focus on Israel’s strength in doing what it believed needed to be done - in Gaza, in Lebanon and elsewhere - despite international opposition.
And there was a lot of justification for the ceasefire too - it would allow Israel to “concentrate on the Iranian threat”, Netanyahu said, emphasising that his country would retain full military freedom to counter any new Hezbollah threat.
Neither side wants this ceasefire deal to be seen as surrender.
Netanyahu says Israel-Hezbollah ceasefire deal agreed
But surrender is exactly what Netanyahu is being accused of by his political rivals - and some of his political allies too.
One poll yesterday suggested that more than 80% of Netanyahu’s support base opposed a deal, and many residents in the north of Israel - large numbers of whom have been evacuated from their homes - are angry too.
...
Many Israelis are urging Netanyahu to continue the war in Lebanon
This war has delivered a lot of military achievements for Israel - Hezbollah is weakened, its arsenals and infrastructure depleted, and its solidarity with Hamas broken.
But Israel’s armed forces are tired, its economy is suffering, and tens of thousands of its residents are displaced.
Still, many here are urging Benjamin Netanyahu to continue the war in Lebanon - asking why the prime minister who has vowed to continue fighting in Gaza until “total victory” is signing a ceasefire in the north?
Why are you speaking to yourself? Also the picture that you posted doesn’t support what you’re trying to say, or do you think all the yellow was explicitly “Palestinian” land? People losing their minds in here.
Like I’ve said, there’s very legitimate reasons to criticize Israel. You don’t need to make things up.
Nobody is trying to say that Palestinians held the deed to every square inch of the area, so I’m not sure why you are twisting my words/illustrations.
Of course there were Jews there, there have always been Jews there. They represented about 32% of the total population in 1948 and most importantly, which is the entire premise of this conversation, cohabitated in peace as a constituent part of the population.
Just as there were Jews in the yellow areas then (and now), there are Palestinians in the green areas now.
The real issue that is at hand here is that Palestinians are not being afforded those same rights in the green areas of the map, that are now controlled by Israel, through state laws that restrict or in some cases even prohibit them from owning land, freedom of movement, freedom to self determination, ability to receive permits, running for election etc.
This is simply not morally just and there is no argument in the world that can respectfully contradict that.
