QQ's pre flop decision.

QQ's pre flop decision.

2/3 NL. This is early in the session. I have 300 and I'm the effective stack.

CO...White late 30's. Has been very aggressive pre with raises. He has cold called a bunch. He seems like he knows what he is doing.

Button...Young black guy just sat down.

I should have a tight image over a small sample size.

HJ opens to 15, CO raises to 35, I am in the SB with QQ's. What is my play here?

Would my play be different if I had a 500 stack?

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24 December 2024 at 04:52 PM
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by mongidig k

2/3 NL. This is early in the session. I have 300 and I'm the effective stack.

CO...White late 30's. Has been very aggressive pre with raises. He has cold called a bunch. He seems like he knows what he is doing.

Button...Young black guy just sat down.

I should have a tight image over a small sample size.

HJ opens to 15, CO raises to 35, I am in the SB with QQ's. What is my play here?

Would my play be different if I had a 500 stack?

Without knowing the hands the CO raises with and the hands he calls with, it's difficult to give him a range. Also, I assume the "Button" is actually the HJ open-raiser?

Since the CO isn't a nit, I'd say 4-bet to 140ish and be willing get it in, since you're only 100BB effective to start.


110 or jam. Probably jam as anything much more than 110 breaks the "one third of effective stacks" rule quite a bit.

With 500 stacks I'd make it 120-130. What do you make of the CO ~min-3bet?


Do you have the positions mixed up here? You included reads on the CO and BTN but then the players involved in the HH are HJ and CO.

I think I would cold 4bet to $90 here either way but it would be nice to know who is who. I don’t think this is an automatic spot.

At $300 effective, my plan is 4bet and call a jam. At $500 effective i am less interested in getting all the money in pre-flop.


by Dan GK k

Do you have the positions mixed up here? You included reads on the CO and BTN but then the players involved in the HH are HJ and CO.

I think I would cold 4bet to $90 here either way but it would be nice to know who is who. I don’t think this is an automatic spot.

At $300 effective, my plan is 4bet and call a jam. At $500 effective i am less interested in getting all the money in pre-flop.

I'm sorry, it should be CO open and button 3 bet.


by mongidig k

I'm sorry, it should be CO open and button 3 bet.

That makes sense. CO vs BTN vs SB, I am happy to 4bet and get it in with QQ for 100bb. The only way I would deviate from this baseline strategy is if the BTN was a player I knew for a fact was a huge nit. I think you will see players 3bet the BTN against a late position open with a reasonably wide range (i.e. not just JJ+ AK).

4bet sizings do not have to be very large at this stack depth, even OOP. I think it is a mistake to go larger than $100 here.


by mongidig k

I'm sorry, it should be CO open and button 3 bet.

Without knowing how the BU plays I might just fold here, since 4-betting commits us to GII at 100BB effective, and if our 4-bet is called we're undoubtedly flipping or crushed.


by Dan GK k

4bet sizings do not have to be very large at this stack depth, even OOP. I think it is a mistake to go larger than $100 here.

By why go lower? Even at $100 we're GII later unless the flop is terrible for us.


by moxterite k

110 or jam. Probably jam as anything much more than 110 breaks the "one third of effective stacks" rule quite a bit.

With 500 stacks I'd make it 120-130. What do you make of the CO ~min-3bet?

It's a cold 4bet. He can bet less. I would do 95.


by Dan GK k

Do you have the positions mixed up here? You included reads on the CO and BTN but then the players involved in the HH are HJ and CO.

I think I would cold 4bet to $90 here either way but it would be nice to know who is who. I don’t think this is an automatic spot.

At $300 effective, my plan is 4bet and call a jam. At $500 effective i am less interested in getting all the money in pre-flop.

I would fold vs jam. Pop doesn't 5bet jam enough for QQ to be profitable here.


4-bet to 120. Also why does the black guy OTB matter? Just letting us know a black guy sat down on your right for some reason?

edit: I thought you had 400, with 300 its probably either a smaller 4-bet or a shove


by mongidig k

]He has cold called a bunch. He seems like he knows what he is doing.

does not compute


by Always Fondling k

By why go lower? Even at $100 we're GII later unless the flop is terrible for us.

I know that you study using GTOw. Even OOP the cold 4bet size is going to be under 3x off 100bb.

Here are some reasons it makes sense to me to go smaller:

- I want to be able to fold pre-flop. Going to $120 pre-flop commits me to calling off. I'm not planning on folding this hand to a BTN 5bet jam, but I would absolutely fold if CO jams. Maybe there is a world where BTN jams and gives off some extreme tell of strength that makes me fold as well.

- I want my opponent to believe that he has fold equity to encourage him to 5bet jam light. A fish might not know that I am committed with a $120 4bet, but a decent player would understand that.

- I want my opponent to make a mistake and call my 4bet light with a hand like AQo, KQs, or 99 that I have drawing very slim. Players are more likely to call against a small sizing.


by Dan GK k

I know that you study using GTOw. Even OOP the cold 4bet size is going to be under 3x off 100bb.

Here are some reasons it makes sense to me to go smaller:

- I want to be able to fold pre-flop. Going to $120 pre-flop commits me to calling off. I'm not planning on folding this hand to a BTN 5bet jam, but I would absolutely fold if CO jams. Maybe there is a world where BTN jams and gives off some extreme tell of strength that makes me fold as well.

- I want my opponent to believe that he has fold e

I haven't looked at the solver for this. I just assume I'm not going to have a 4-bet/fold line at 100bb.

Edit: Just checked the solver for x5, 100bb...solver shoves 1/3, raises to 25bb 2/3 of the time--and always calls when open-raiser folds and 3-better jams...when open-raiser jams and CO folds, solver shrugs and seems indifferent.


by Always Fondling k

I haven't looked at the solver for this. I just assume I'm not going to have a 4-bet/fold line at 100bb.

Lol ok. I should have known better than to respond to one of your posts in earnest.


by rickroll k

does not compute

He seemed to be a thinking player but he also liked to gamble.


by Stupidbanana k

4-bet to 120. Also why does the black guy OTB matter? Just letting us know a black guy sat down on your right for some reason?

edit: I thought you had 400, with 300 its probably either a smaller 4-bet or a shove

The same reason the white guy in the CO matters.


Spots like these are extremely nuanced - I think if you cold 4 bet you'll just announce your range is QQ+,AK+ and anyone with a brain can play accordingly. If you jam maybe you get a hand like JJ to call it off. You can also just call the 3b and remain underepped postflop. The downside of course if allowing them to realize their equity somewhat and you're most likely going 3 way here. Think I might call the 3b and go 3 way - its lower variance and feel comfortable taking this postflop. There's much more value 4bing AA/KK where you can get QQ/AK to jam it in in bad shape.


by Stupidbanana k

Also why does the black guy OTB matter? Just letting us know a black guy sat down on your right for some reason?

was wondering the same


In the SB here, I think we just want to keep things simple and re-raise our entire continuing range. This would be an easy cold 4-bet online. The only thing that gives me pause is the "he's been cold-calling a bunch". I would 4-bet/fold to $85 as I don't think most people have a 5-bet all-in range that includes AK or JJ.


by haha_TP k

In the SB here, I think we just want to keep things simple and re-raise our entire continuing range. This would be an easy cold 4-bet online. The only thing that gives me pause is the "he's been cold-calling a bunch". I would 4-bet/fold to $85 as I don't think most people have a 5-bet all-in range that includes AK or JJ.

Huh? Few opponents folding 3-bet/folding AK to 4-bet 100BB effective unless the 4-better looks/seems like a nit.


by Dan GK k

Lol ok. I should have known better than to respond to one of your posts in earnest.

I don't understand what you're talking about, or why you've decided to troll.

Feel free to get your advice elsewhere.


4b to 80 and get it in if he jams. I would not cold call any hands here. Maybe 4b fold if it goes jam, jam after you cold 4. I would never cold call a 3b, esp in sb, esp vs the late position open and 3b. Don't 4b to more than 1/3 of your stack. Give him a chance to make a big mistake and call AQo, KQs, AJs, etc.


by Always Fondling k

I don't understand what you're talking about, or why you've decided to troll.

Feel free to get your advice elsewhere.

Sorry, not trying to be a troll. You asked me a question about my strategy in this spot and I took the time to provide a detailed response to your question.

I missed your edit after you looked up the spot. To be honest, I thought you were trying to troll me yourself which I guess was a misread on my end. I appreciate you sharing the GTOw response with the 5x open. I would prefer to 4bet jam this spot than cold 4bet to greater than $100.


by pokerfan655 k

Spots like these are extremely nuanced - I think if you cold 4 bet you'll just announce your range is QQ+,AK+ and anyone with a brain can play accordingly. If you jam maybe you get a hand like JJ to call it off. You can also just call the 3b and remain underepped postflop. The downside of course if allowing them to realize their equity somewhat and you're most likely going 3 way here. Think I might call the 3b and go 3 way - its lower variance and feel comfortable taking this postflop. There's m

I 4 bet to 100 and the CO tanked for about a minute and mucked. The button quickly moved all in and I called. He had AK and I held on for the win. The CO told me that if I would have smooth called he would have pushed with AK. I would have stacked both.

Smooth calling makes sense to me but it appears that is frowned upon in the SB by most. I would think smoothing in this situation must be a reasonable move in some spots. Maybe not at 100 BB's.

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