How to handle Dealer mistakes ...
i play a ton of live PLO, so i'm witnessing a lot of mistakes on a regular basis - bigger and smaller ones. Even the best dealers make mistakes from time to time, and bad dealers make a lot of them. I used to correct everything i saw, but changed my approach on this over time, now do it more deliberately, depending on circumstances. Several reasons for this:
a) don't want the dealer to be pissed at me (nobody likes to be told they made a mistake, work pride, shame in front of the table, etc.)
b) depending on who is it done to (if an ******* at the table doesn't get enough change, i say nothing, if it's a nice guy or a whale who gets shorted, i point it out)
c) if it's a minor thing, and i'm not affected/not in the pot, for example small error in pot calculation (raise from the blinds and blind is added, happens very often still etc.), i stay quiet
How do you guys handle this?
How do you rate my approach from a moral point of view (not consistent correcting, but dependent as described)?
any other ideas?
thx for input
Monetary mistakes should be corrected immediately, no matter who is making the mistake or who benefits. Not doing so because you don't like someone reflects more on you than them.
If the mistakes are so rampant that you'd be interrupting more hands than not, then a conversation should be had away from the table with a floor or room manager.
Monetary mistakes should be corrected immediately, no matter who is making the mistake or who benefits. Not doing so because you don't like someone reflects more on you than them.
If the mistakes are so rampant that you'd be interrupting more hands than not, then a conversation should be had away from the table with a floor or room manager.
yeah, that's how i used to do it ... and then i grew up ;-)
in all seriousness (and every real player will have seen this situation at the table):
let's say there's one guy who's a real ass, berates players for their game, tells everybody how great he plays, total loudmouth etc. ... now he gets short-changed and you wanna tell me that your are not a little bit happy inside, bc the oh so great player himself didn't realize the mistake that was done to him? and you will correct it for him?
i'm totally fine with keeping my mouth shut in that case.
Monetary mistakes should be corrected immediately, no matter who is making the mistake or who benefits. Not doing so because you don't like someone reflects more on you than them.
This
As far as dealers getting annoyed, that's on them, but to be fair a lot of that comes down to how to bring it up. There are good ways and there are bad ways.
If it’s a dealer that frequently makes mistakes, point them all out so everyone knows how bad of a dealer they are. Either they get shamed into improving or get fired from all the complaints.
I personally point out larger errors, but keep my mouth shut about small stuff unless I'm personally affected. Really though I don't think anyone should feel shy about pointing out actual monetary errors.
The bigger issue I have is with improper shuffling and dealing procedures. I just traveled to an out of the area tournament series where I hardly knew anyone. Something like two thirds of the dealers wouldn't even perform a proper cut. Most would cut with two hands combined into the same motion as their last riffle.
Frankly the loose procedures make it easy for card mechanics to set decks and blend in with everyone else. I have no doubt that the vast majority of these dealers are honest and just a little sloppy, but these large events with lots of relatively high stakes action are attractive to cheating teams.
I don't want to be the dick asking every other dealer to shuffle and cut properly, but the way they're doing things is increasing the chances of me being cheated. The people running the events should really be the ones staying on top of this sort of thing. Unfortunately it tends to fall on the players to protect themselves.
If it’s a dealer that frequently makes mistakes, point them all out so everyone knows how bad of a dealer they are. Either they get shamed into improving or get fired from all the complaints.
that's a very one-sided way to look at the world buddy ... some of those guys have to work 16 hour shifts, are tired, etc ...
I personally point out larger errors, but keep my mouth shut about small stuff unless I'm personally affected. Really though I don't think anyone should feel shy about pointing out actual monetary errors.
The bigger issue I have is with improper shuffling and dealing procedures. I just traveled to an out of the area tournament series where I hardly knew anyone. Something like two thirds of the dealers wouldn't even perform a proper cut. Most would cut with two hands combined into the same motion
good points you mentioned ... but also:
shouldn't it be the responsibility of the tourney organizer to either hire experienced dealers, or if they hire new ones, to train them accordingly? (blink blink at wsop and others ;-))
that's a very one-sided way to look at the world buddy ... some of those guys have to work 16 hour shifts, are tired, etc ...
Pretty confident that if the dealer is costing the room money in being sloppy with making change or collecting rake, the room manager isn't going to let them slide because they were working a double shift.
Pretty confident that if the dealer is costing the room money in being sloppy with making change or collecting rake, the room manager isn't going to let them slide because they were working a double shift.
good that i'm not the room manager ;-)
look, all true and factual, all i'm saying is, there is a human component to this, and i'd like to take that into consideration.
for example, yesterday, there was a dealer coming to our table i'd never seen before (she was actually brand new), she introduced herself and said right from the start: "guys, i ususally deal only holdem, this is my first day dealing omaha (after a course), so pls take it easy with me, i'm trying my best, but i'm not very experienced with this."
of course she made some mistakes, but everybody was cool with it, helped her out, great atmosphere overall from the start.
then i've seen guys who claim to be the best dealer in the world ("hey, let me do my job, i know what i'm doing" ... while making mistake after mistake), of course this guy will be treated differently.
This is all really a basic question of "How do we want to treat people who make mistakes when they're being paid to provide a service to us?" It doesn't have to be dealer specific. If a dealer is legitimately trying to do their best, then maybe show some compassion and patience. If a dealer is a know-it-all who thinks they should be on Mt Rushmore, then show less patience, or just go straight to the supervisor or manager.
Is the dealer making mistakes because he's brand new at the job and he's nervous and intimidated? Or is the dealer making mistakes because he drank half a bottle of Jack Daniels on the way to work?
This is not a one size fits all question.
This is all really a basic question of "How do we want to treat people who make mistakes when they're being paid to provide a service to us?" It doesn't have to be dealer specific. If a dealer is legitimately trying to do their best, then maybe show some compassion and patience. If a dealer is a know-it-all who thinks they should be on Mt Rushmore, then show less patience, or just go straight to the supervisor or manager.
Is the dealer making mistakes because he's brand new at the job and he's ne
None of this is relevant if the dealer is making mistakes related to money.
This is all really a basic question of "How do we want to treat people who make mistakes when they're being paid to provide a service to us?" It doesn't have to be dealer specific. If a dealer is legitimately trying to do their best, then maybe show some compassion and patience. If a dealer is a know-it-all who thinks they should be on Mt Rushmore, then show less patience, or just go straight to the supervisor or manager.
Is the dealer making mistakes because he's brand new at the job and he's ne
Exactly what i'm saying/doing
I guess it depends on how much money and what your tolerance is. If a player wants to bet the pot at PLO and the dealer announced $325 when it's actually $320 I'm keeping my mouth shut. But if the dealer shorts the side pot by $100 in an all-in situation I'm speaking up.
Either way, I'm going to try to be patient and polite until the dealer starts to give me attitude.
I cannot imagine reading what bolt wrote and thinking "it is not relevant whether the dealer is brand new or he drank a half a bottle of Jack". You have lost the plot. Like what??
A bank teller who miscounted his drawer because he is brand new, a bank teller who miscounted his drawer because he is shitfaced, and a bank teller who stole from his drawer are all treated very differently.
I cannot imagine reading what bolt wrote and thinking "it is not relevant whether the dealer is brand new or he drank a half a bottle of Jack". You have lost the plot. Like what??
A bank teller who miscounted his drawer because he is brand new, a bank teller who miscounted his drawer because he is shitfaced, and a bank teller who stole from his drawer are all treated very differently.
If you think that my point was "it's not relevant..." then you didn't read my post carefully or I didn't explain myself well. Or some of both.
I guess it depends on how much money and what your tolerance is. If a player wants to bet the pot at PLO and the dealer announced $325 when it's actually $320 I'm keeping my mouth shut. But if the dealer shorts the side pot by $100 in an all-in situation I'm speaking up.
Either way, I'm going to try to be patient and polite until the dealer starts to give me attitude.
+1
that's a very one-sided way to look at the world buddy ... some of those guys have to work 16 hour shifts, are tired, etc ...
Stop taking on extra shifts if you’re gonna be making mistakes left and right. My comment applies to the worst dealers who literally make mistakes at least 1 in 5 hands.
Realistically, if they're that bad you have a few choices
Watch them like a hawk, correct them when they screw up it when it looks like they're about to screw up.
Take a 30 minute break when they sit at your table so you don't have to put up with them.
Find a new room to play in if a significant number of dealers are that bad.
But don't expect bad dealers to suddenly get better unless they're new to the business. And definitely don't expect them to work fewer hours so that they're on their A-Game. They could have mortgage payments, medical bills, college tuition for their kids... Who knows... And I promise you they're more interested in earning extra money for their families than they are in providing you with a well run game.
I cannot imagine reading what bolt wrote and thinking "it is not relevant whether the dealer is brand new or he drank a half a bottle of Jack". You have lost the plot. Like what??
A bank teller who miscounted his drawer because he is brand new, a bank teller who miscounted his drawer because he is shitfaced, and a bank teller who stole from his drawer are all treated very differently.
The reasons "why" are for the supervisors to figure out.
The reasons "why" are irrelevant for the players.
This is basic Adulting 101.
Your Adulting professors have failed you. I can choose to show compassion and patience with service workers. To say that those go out the door when money is involved is not the look that you think it is.
well ... i wanted to know, how others handle these situations, and i got my answer:
some of you are lets say very "rules-oriented", and other clearly realize that we are all human beings with strengths and weaknesses and acting human is not such a bad thing.
lets leave it at that.
Yes, we are. So is this one of your weaknesses
b) depending on who is it done to (if an ******* at the table doesn't get enough change, i say nothing, if it's a nice guy or a whale who gets shorted, i point it out)
So even when you see monetary mistakes being made, you'd do the right thing unless you thought he was an *******. Got it!
I'm glad that most all of the people I play poker with don't have these kinds of weaknesses and will still do the right thing ethically.
well ... i wanted to know, how others handle these situations, and i got my answer:
some of you are lets say very "rules-oriented", and other clearly realize that we are all human beings with strengths and weaknesses and acting human is not such a bad thing.
lets leave it at that.
People shouldn't work at jobs where their weaknesses outshine their strengths.