The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Wow bro,
the poker strategy indoctrination really focked up your mind. 😁

Yes we are all winning, and?
Still I would win much more, and probably be a millionaire by now, if these sites I played on would not have fixed their stuff.

I could play and crush high stakes instead of midstakes games.

Ohh yeah I forgot, I am probably just not that good. LOL.

Dude once I found a site that lets me get there, I will demolish highstakes.

I didn't post any Mtt swings here. So I really don't know where you take that *It looks normal* from.

I said I ran 200 buyins under EV in SNGs, which is an absolute harsh number. And SNGs are NOT that high variance.
Also you have to consider that it was pre GTO solvers around 2012. I was an ICM beast at that time!

If you would have seen my MTT downswing around 2015 on Pokerstars, you would question reality ��

And around 2020 I sat down at a friends house playing SNGs for around 3 weeks on his Stars account that also seemed doomed. I did massive ICM training before I started to so called crushing the games.

What happened was that I was theoretically anihilating these games but the Pokerstars software completly destroyed me.

These suckers I played against hit everything in the most absurd ways over and over and over again in a huge samplesize for hours every day.

The friend sat next to me with his mouth open and couldn't believe his eyes.
He was like wtf is this?!

I know the owners can influence stuff at will. I have an example from the past that I won't get into.
There is no such thing as luck in this world.
Maybe is some peoples head.
Everything happens for a purpose.
And when one room decides to let me off the leash, I will make HS cry and mark my name into poker history. It is that simple.
All it takes, is not seating me with deposit upswinger, and I am good to cush. I will not stop after I have 1 million net profit to my name in live, and 1 million net profit in online.

😉

^ yes sorry u posted how u ran accounts up and down and not about Mtt swings, my bad.

But nowhere u mentioned anything about any upswing(s)? When u were able to build those Rolls from pure Scratch or almost no money, u were obviously also running very well at times.

True that, I had some good runs, but not as good as they should have been.

If Viktor managed to turn 2000 $ into 1.7M on Party, then I can at least do 10% of that and 75 or 85x my roll.
He 850 xed it!

Now he is obviously a super genius and was uber crushing.

But I come from the mindset that if you have a crushing not genius edge, you should be building your roll in no time, and move up fast if you can outplay your opponents and get into their head or gto patterns.
They shouldn't do **** when you over cbetbet pot 1.5 x in SRPs, because you know that on certain board structures, you have full nutadvantage, an on certain turns you even might block their 2 pair combos and bomb them.
No one can tell me that average Joe even thinks in these cathegories.

I refuse the bs that is going in some rooms. Especially Stars my most hated toom of all times.

I mean wtf. On my own account I couldn't win a hand, and then with a new id + neteller acc of my ex gf, + fresh pc suddenly I ran like god.
It was like having a level 1 gaming char boosted up to 99.
😄

Same for Titan poker btw.
nn that.

..I need to have no deposit boosted accs or housebots at my table so I can crush and snatch the trophy.

wow, reaching new levels of delusional right here

I, for one, should be banging Scarlett Johansson & Jessica Alba but women are rigged against me

Dude what about running under EV don't you understand? Just tell me, I will help you with your issues. I can also help you to get laid for sure

You say you should have been a millionaire, so you actually run ~1 million under ev?? graphs please 🙂

So because you have a decent score on a gto trainer you should be able to duplicate the results of one of the biggest crushers of his day in way way way softer games?

you come across incredibly delusional and if you are to be living in the past.

Pokerstars is owned by flutter these days.

Most of the info you quote is outdated and fragmented.

Listen i am not beating poker at the clip I used to either.

The fat days are over.

hahahahaha oh boy if you were in the gambling industry you would now how funny what you typed there is.

Good luck with the Curacao gaming board I am sure they will revoke the license any day now.

Thank you for the detailed opinion of an experienced player. It's good you are brave enough to provide your point of view.

Let me comment some parts. May be, full fill your observations with my own ones.

Did you notice how this really happens? The last hands right before the bankroll loss.

It's always the same. You get some huge hand like KK, you double up.
You get some QQ hand and double up again. And get x4 stack.
Then you get KK once again and the only stack who "beats" you - "accidentally" gets AA. It's like a joke. They simply try to provoke the player - "Wow I just made x4 so fast. Few more luck and I'm back in the business!".

It's just THE SAME every time, lol.
So cheap, actually. Typical casino tricks.

Exactly. If I'm right, the most part of active players here who start the conversation - are winning. And they look much more "confident" then others in the chat. We provide concrete materials, we do not talk about "variance" in words. We don't talk about "the feild is getting stronger" in words.

This is exactly what I decided to fight for. Crazy number of people simply waste their lifetime.

Yes, some players are satisfied with the situation. Some of them wouldn't EVER win in a fair game. Some of them doesn't put themself higher aims in life. But most part of good players aim to progress and to reach some goals in their lifes. But in fact, they are always under pressure of constant obstacles.

Personally, I don't even understand these kind of questions - "why do you play then?", "who said you are good?".

Sounds like some low leveled conversation. Who care how well he play? Who care if he is a winning player, since he provides statistics and concrete statements about the game process?

Looks like it works in case of some silly people... I don't know.

But, in general, yes, this is just unacceptable behavior. Mental illness to simply insult people here with no REAL responsibility for your words. Such a shame. Well, someday forums (and the society in general) will come to kicking this idiots off the forum.

Just THE SAME here for Partypoker and Pokerstars.

Look, I haven't got as big stats as you do. But in terms of offline poker it's pretty significant.

These are my 400 SnG 7$ tournaments. Look at my final table all-ins results.

Man, I don't win the final table all-ins according to my expected chances EVERY 100 tournaments.

I haven't EVER won on Stars MORE then I have been expected. But always under 🍰

As a result of this I won 44,2% of 51,6% avg. all-ins. And this is 8% "luck-factor". Yes, I can't use it to "prove" the fraud. (I got something more serious, then this, lol.)
But as I have said, i just wanna add some data into your observations.

Man...

It's a special question in the poker community, you know.

First. In case such a huge variance could take such a high influence in professional gaming - professional offline tournament poker wouldn't even exist. BUT this genius online-regulars nowadays say - "they suck at poker, who knows if the win money". Okay, cool, deep insight... Significant point of view.

But the most important stuff. And here you are lucky to get me, really.

Lol, MRP, WHAT IS VARIANCE in words? Look, i'm a professional risk analyst. And some guys just talk about variance like it's a "word".

Lol, it's calculations. Sometimes - pretty complicated. When I say about variance on the forum - I provide some concrete numbers. EVEN PROFESSIONAL RISK ANALYST can't TALK about variance BEFORE he shown concrete numbers. It's unassessable without real calculations.

MRP. You, TeflonDawg, Slugant and anyone else who say "it's variance" - it's kidish. Like a joke for a professional.

Examples.

"MTT tournaments got a huge variance" - WOW, really? The statement of a kid who always answers "happens...", "i don't know man, happens".

"I played 169 SnGs of the concrete structure and made 90% ROI. A chance to make 0% ROI or less are 0,005%. A chance to go under 12,8% ROI is 0,3%" - THIS IS VARIANCE. And now we can talk about this.

Guys (MRP, you understand, it's not towards you), if you say "this is variance" - you show your complete incompetence in terms of poker deviations - in other words, you know NOTHING about variance in poker, if you speak like that. And this can't be obvious only to stupid 18 years old kids.

Just an advice. If you hear someone talking about variance, you ask "what are the chances for this variance?". And conversation ends immediately.
You hear "It's all, good, it happens in poker" - "Okay, I got your deep insight, good bye!".

Well, MRP, I would add the most important part here.

A key ability of a professional player is bluffing. A good pro player must win at least 40% of pots where he got Nothing.

But online poker rooms simply killed bluff. Online players openly say "if you bluff - it's unnecessary risk". And it's just a joke since in a random game you simply can't win without bluffing. Noone will give his chips for free right when you get a good hand. More then that - noone will EVER bring his chips in the pot if you never bluff. It's simply READABLE.

BUT - it's not about an online poker, man. Not any more.

I know many regulars on SnGs (MTT/heads ups), who just check-call almost every hand and keep winning on a distance, which is not possible.

HOW - I have shown you, guys, how iPoker's software puts a "sit-out" player into the flop as many times as it needs to let him get the stack back. The postflop is simply unplayable online.

That's why I don't play online any more. It's not a poker game any more. At all.

I just wanna remind you this one on iPoker, just to illustrate the situation (I hope we won't find IDIOTs who manage to miss the word "example")

Look, I bluff here in a bounty MTT

And right the next hand I fold here with a chip leaders stack on a BOUNTY tournament

Because I do know, how bluff ends in online poker. I know the software.

Yes, they don't let you win significant prize comparing to your bankroll level. If you wanna get this kind of prize you should deposite a valuable amount of funds to "cover" acceptable bankroll growth level.

))) Well, playing spins through a postflop is simply senseless according to my analysis of a sit-out player, MRP.
But if you use push-fold really well, the software will put your opponent on a better starter as many times as it needs before you finally push your hand. Your opponent just needs to push "call" button at least once. And you won't prove ANYTHING, since his hands are hidden.

Playing spins without running a huge amount of tables is simply senseless. Only then software will allow to win something, according to a huge activity of player in the room.

I have read some stories of the sport betting companies owners (who also own poker-rooms itself) - they seem to be simply mentally ill people who connect their lives with criminal for a reason of earning huge amount of money which they do not really need for living. Simply primitive inside people.

Yes, you are totally right. What people are we can see right here in this chat. It's easy.

Let's see what's coming. In my opinion, if my materials of clear description of the software algorithm of iPoker (the SAME algo - Pokerstars) and the statistical proof of clear openly done rigging of the postflop won't lead this to the end... It will be a real problem, means were are not under protection of laws any more. And poker sphere is just unregulated.

I will post all the answers of Gambling Supervisors a bit later.

TD. First - it's really good you managed to win online. Seriously.

But no one says it's impossible to win online. Almost everyone here in the chat, who talks about the fraud are not satisfied with the amount won.

The game should be fair.

Agree here and we will test a real ability of players to resist variance.

At the moment it's a fraud, it's not a variance.

You would enjoy playing from my account man 😃
Especially after I decided to test Pokerstars software and started to fold huge hands "in time" ))

This is exactly what is going one, and I describe how it works in details in my video. But looks like the material is too hard to understand for people. I did my best to explain, though...

Yes, the gaming process is totally controlled by the software. Every hand.
It's really impressive. I was like WTF when realized what is going on and successfully tested my assumptions regarding the card dealing algorithm.

She has been my all time favorite...♥
Before I found a true love - Alycia Debnem-Carey ♥♥

I doubt they (Curacao) revoke the license. What do you think about The UKGC? (The UK Gambling Comission)

The fact that variance happens doesn't mean anything is possible in the real world. When variance exceeds 2 standard deviations it's considered to be high and is significant. When it exceeds 3 standard deviations it's considered to be an outlier and a rare event. Here is what ChatGPT calculated the odds of my results were.

I also posted graphs of all my all in hands that I lost (11 million chips) where my EV consistently hovered around the zero axis as well as my hit rate with premium hands. How so many can argue that this isn't at least suspicious, is delusional.

Yeah, this is not just "at least suspicious". If all the calculations and the data is correct it's simply unacceptable and happens once in 2 000 000 tournaments played in average, approximately. Comparing to real life gaming. This kind of stuff - is a pure rigging of the game against a profitable player who would withdraw money from the room in case of winning his equity.

I started off with +30 buyin swing at WPT poker. But since then I havent been able to win any all-in at all. Its like they put on a doomswitch on my account. xD So now im back to scratch

you all suck at poker

/thread

If it were true that everybody is hitting flushes, (or whatever), at the same rate as each other, then yes, as you say, that's a fair deal for everyone. If some are given flushes, by design, more than others, then that is a rigged deal.

As you are saying, "Something ain't adding up", that must mean you think the deal is rigged. Especially when you say, "... you get the same one or two guys every single day getting their money in with 10% or less of a chance to win and they consistently keep hitting cards day after day week after week", and, "... he got his money in somewhere around 20 times with less than a 15% chance to win and won all 20 times". (Does that mean they are being dealt far more gutshot cards than anybody else?)

But then you also often say, "I do not think it's rigged", and, "Nobody is saying it's Rigged".

Please tell us what you really think.

Hey Johnmir,

yeah I used the term (a zilllion hands with regard to variance), because as soon as one talks about the hands that were played,
the trolls will demand more. It is always like that.
Their strategy is to never be satisfied, always demand more or something else, always blame the player and downplay the amount of hands that were played.
In my case as a professional grinder and winning player for years, I obviously played an astronomic amount of hands.

Now even when I say I played 200 buyins under EV in 9-18 max NLH SNGs on of the saves bankroll building formats, then they will
b1tch about something else.
Then suddenly 200 buyins are not much, which is a ridiculous statement, or they will just distract and b1tch about my
ICM trainer score that is ridiculously high, and even talk about GTO trainer score, and mix that up.
I come with some obscure laughable ad hominem attack that focuses on (the way I speak/write) to somehow create the impression, their toxic trash
can convince someone, and their agenda goes through. ^^

These fk.n people. ^^ Just irrelevant losers and sockers. A waste of my time.

MRP, yes, and the best thing you can do is just point out the dialog manipulation. You perfectly did that.

BUT - the only way to influence is sending the materials to the authorities. That's why I did this.

Here on the forum, I tried to "inform" people about what is going on. And everyone decides himself. Makes all the reasonable conclusions regarding the significance on the information.

I am saying that at this point I think we realize that not all sites spend the same amount of money on their random generators. Some really care about integrity in the upkeep of their sites others don't. So you're bound to see different results on different sites. Now phenom poker has told me themselves in an email that they're a different levels of certification for random number generators. I was not actually aware of this. But I guess if you're willing to spend more money you get a better certification. Now does that make sense to you?

Certificates really don't mean nothing when it comes to randomness in online poker. Certificates can be bought. This is a billion $ industry, and corruption is huge in businesses.
There are always people that have their price.

Deposit upswings followed excessive downswings happen in all of them for many, many people, but some lucky ones, depending also on region and behavior etc.
Running under EV and spreaded EV in the fishs favor is standard for most players.

Nothing in this business is random.
Even strategy forum posts, streaming and YT will affect it.

They receive their certificates either by real tests or by corruption money, and then run their scam profit algorithms again.
The regulation is just in place so the governments that are even more criminal than any mafia can get a share from that cake.

Phenom also gave me an absurd upswing, followed by an extreme downswing.
It is like a switch they activate. There is nothing in between. Phenoms dead anyway. And even if the intentions of Phenom are pure, then the algorithm is just trash.
Whoever builds them.

Would you mind posting the e-mail exchanges? I've never heard of anything like that either and am intrigued/curious

I will have to look to see if I save them. Generally I just erase all that stuff

If you have erased these e-mails you are using as your source of important information for us to believe, please ask them to copy them to you for you to post here. Otherwise, some might believe you are simply making it up.

In the case of Phenom Poker, their Certificate states:

"The product listed within this certificate has been successfully tested to generally accepted industry standards for highly regulated jurisdictions"

and

"Gaming Laboratories International, LLC (GLI) is a fully independent and accredited testing laboratory (ISO/IEC 17025) and product certification body (ISO/IEC 17065) contracted by gaming industry operators and software and hardware suppliers to perform third-party testing, auditing and certification services. Working on behalf of gaming authorities, GLI verifies technical compliance with the standard(s) and/or jurisdictional regulation(s) adopted by the gaming authorities. Should you have questions or concerns we encourage you to contact the relevant gaming authority"

and

"This certificate signifies that the product(s) listed has been evaluated to applicable standards and/or jurisdictional regulation(s)".

Their rep here has stated:

No, jungmit, your response doesn't make sense to me. I can't see how they can have any choice in the cost or type of certification when the GLI is working on behalf of the gaming authorities that ensure the RNG is satisfactory for them to issue a gaming licence subject to their published rules. I can't imagine how a RNG that differs in the results of cards dealt out when different numbers of players are involved could pass any sort of tests or be vouched for as any industry's standard.

If there was any one single poker site in the world, big or small, that is honest in its dealings with its customers, they themselves would undoubtedly make it well known in their marketing that any of their competitors who were using a totally useless tester could not be trusted.

What I'm telling you is my understanding is to pass a test you have to just deal the cards fairly. As long as everybody gets the same crazy stuff happening to them it's considered fair. I gave the example of flush draws. Let's give the example of you're supposed to get pocket aces once every 220 hands well what if you got them once every 160 hands? As long as everybody got them every 160 hands then it would be considered Fair. Well that's something different than saying we're 100% random. As for the email I have asked them to resend me the email again I will see if I get it. I am telling u I have spoken tongsming associates years ago about this. I asked them if they check for more aces or kings dealt. He said u are thinking about this the wrong way. He said to get a certificate this is the test we do its like bringing in your car to us. We won't check the engine all we do is turn the key to make sure it starts. So as long as the rng works u get a certificate. Give gaming associates a call and ask them. Not much required to getting a certification.

Dude seriously you believe someone that has background knowledge about international commerce, astertoric sealaw and Delaware collateral accounts, that is backed up by an former accreditated diplomatic person with the highest UN clearance even gives a damn about what you quote here?
You have zero idea in what kind of world you live in, when you start posting these good sounding redundant certificate and jurisdiction statements.
You probably still believe that souverain states exist and bridges and schools are build by taxes.

Any poker room can regulate their rng by will, by switching a freaking button.
This is a billion dollar industry! Nothing in there is by chance.

It doesn't matter which so called independent iTech lab has ever once ran a test, and didn't find anything suspicious at that specific time.
How naive are you, you still believe in Santa Claus do you?
And the government loves you and is you friend right?
Go back to sleep please.