It's time for a complete mental reset
I’m 50 years old, I’ve been playing poker for about 20 years, and I’ve never experienced any sustained success. I’ve had
I'm not sure if I agree with the guy who said that you are destined to be break-even, but his point is fairly valid. You say you've been playing for 20 years and have never experienced any sustained success, and have never ran well beyond random individual tournaments. You say you don't like to study, and when you do it's listening to podcasts. You say you don't have much ti
I think people are interpreting my very brief summary of my poker career in a way that isn't reflective of the reality. I left out a lot of detail because the point of the thread was about my mindset at the moment, and not about my history. But allow me to clarify a few things.
1) While I have been playing online poker for 20 years, it has been on-and-off over that time and has involved dabbling in different games. I only started focusing on MTTs within the last 5 years or so because my kids finally reached the age where I actually got my weekends back. Over my entire online career I've played pretty much everything, from the early days of single-table SNGs to PLO8 to zoom cash and so on. So don't get the wrong impression that I've been an MTT player for 20 years.
2) I never said I don't like to study. In fact it's quite the opposite. What I said was that I actually started enjoying poker more when I stopped studying. I did say that I find it less enjoyable than I used to because strategy content is so solver-heavy now. But I went through a stretch of time where I was studying quite heavily given my time constraints, and my game vastly improved because of it. I just haven't seen it translate into sustained results.
3) Don't dismiss podcasts as an effective study tool. They're not nearly as useful as they used to be for reasons already mentioned, but they were hugely helpful for me. I didn't just listen passively, I engaged with the strategy content actively.
There are ways to make money outside of online MTT's that are essentially guaranteed to work, such as finding a weekend side gig. If that extra money is your main goal, you will achieve it 100% of the time outside of online MTT poker.The chances of you suddenly becoming a winning online MTT poker player are obviously much less than 100%. If you disagree with that, then there'
I play poker for the challenge. I play poker because I enjoy the competition. I play poker because I enjoy the strategy in the game and I want to prove to myself that I can be good at it. And there is the possibility of making money in the process.
So yes, if I were desperate for extra money I would take a side gig and the financial guarantee. But I'd rather play poker for the reasons mentioned above.
I look forward to being able to report back on my future success.
Sounds good.
Not trying to debate you, you seem to have a different goals than most and I feel like I'm not being helpful, so I'm sorry and I'll leave you to your business. Couple of things to point out as I'm leaving
I did say that I find it less enjoyable than I used to because strategy content is so solver-heavy now.
Understanding the correct (optimal) way to play is important because not only does it give you a solid baseline to approach the game, but it also gives you the tools to understand where your opponents are making mistakes that you can capitalize on.
3) Don't dismiss podcasts as an effective study tool. They're not nearly as useful as they used to be for reasons already mentioned, but they were hugely helpful for me. I didn't just listen passively, I engaged with the strategy content actively.
If that was true, you could just go back and listen to those old podcasts and start crushing. Right?
Not trying to debate you, you seem to have a different goals than most and I feel like I'm not being helpful, so I'm sorry and I'll leave you to your business. Couple of things to point out as I'm leaving
No need to leave. I don't mind people challenging my thinking at all. But I don't see the point in dropping into someone's thread and crapping on their goals based on nothing more than a brief post. I'm not going to stop playing poker just because a couple of strangers in a discussion forum decide they don't think I can ever make money.
Understanding the correct (optimal) way to play is important because not only does it give you a solid baseline to approach the game, but it also gives you the tools to understand where your opponents are making mistakes that you can capitalize on.
I agree 100%. All I said was that I enjoyed studying more before solvers became so ubiquitous. I actually think that's a big part of the reason why strategy podcasts have virtually disappeared. It's like there's nothing left to discuss strategy-wise when people can just run hands through solvers. The TPE podcast is a great example. It used to be in-depth discussions between several players about how to play a hand, and now it's one host by himself saying, "Let's see what the solver says about how I played my hand," and the discussion is done in about 5 minutes.
If that was true, you could just go back and listen to those old podcasts and start crushing. Right?
Oh come on. Are you seriously suggesting that podcasts aren't a useful study tool because I didn't see results when I used them? I think you're seriously underestimating the impact of variance in tournament poker, especially for people who play lower volume. It is actually possible that I'm a pretty decent player who has just been on the wrong side of variance so far.
You're the one asking for advice after only "a brief post", so, yeah, that's kind of all any of us here have to go by.
Have you asked your wife and kids if they would be happier if you quit playing online poker? If not, you should.
Good luck.
You're the one asking for advice after only "a brief post", so, yeah, that's kind of all any of us here have to go by.
Have you asked your wife and kids if they would be happier if you quit playing online poker? If not, you should.
Good luck.
I asked for advice on my mental game strategy, not whether I should continue playing or not.
And in response to your question, I'm 50 years old and both my kids are in university. I mentioned that I play one session/week. I also mentioned that I only started playing MTTs in the last few years when my kids didn't require as much of my attention as they did when they were younger. That's because I devoted all my time outside work to my children when they were younger. If you're implying that I'm generally unhappy because of poker, you are very wrong. Once again you're making some pretty big assumptions based on a brief exchange with a stranger online.
playing the wsop main this summer? its going to be a great summer!
I asked for advice on my mental game strategy, not whether I should continue playing or not.And in response to your question, I'm 50 years old and both my kids are in university. I mentioned that I play one session/week. I also mentioned that I only started playing MTTs in the last few years when my kids didn't require as much of my attention as they did when they were younger.
Obviously you don't want to hear anything except "Keep it up, the cards are bound to turn in your favor eventually!"
So, keep it up, the cards are bound to turn in your favor eventually!
You seem to be taking exception with/trying to debate a bunch of things I didn't say, while responding to me, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.
Just as one example:
Oh come on. Are you seriously suggesting that podcasts aren't a useful study tool because I didn't see results when I used them?
I never said nor implied that. My implication is that podcasts aren't a useful study tool, but that has nothing to do with whatever short term results you feel you had after listening to them. It's because I actually study poker and understand what works and what doesn't, and a bunch of guys trying to be entertaining while breaking down one random hand for 15 minutes isn't going to lead to any fundamental understandings for the listener.
My question to you was, if you feel that podcasts are a useful tool in studying, and there are podcasts from years ago that you found valuable, why aren't you going back and relistening to them?
Obviously you don't want to hear anything except "Keep it up, the cards are bound to turn in your favor eventually!"
So, keep it up, the cards are bound to turn in your favor eventually!
Not at all. I just don't want to hear, "Give it up, you're destined to be a break-even player." That's not helpful.
You seem to be taking exception with/trying to debate a bunch of things I didn't say, while responding to me, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Just as one example:I never said nor implied that. My implication is that podcasts aren't a useful study tool, but that has nothing to do with whatever short term results you feel you had after listening to them. It's
Oh, my apologies. I thought you were sarcastically suggesting that I would be crushing it if podcasts were such an effective study tool.
They were helpful at the time because I was learning to think through and analyze hands, which greatly improved my game. But I actually did start going through the same exercise again with a newer podcast I recently discovered. That said, I didn't start this thread because I feel like my poker skill has deteriorated. I started it because my mental game has deteriorated due to an extensive bad run. Don't get me wrong, I am reviewing my hands to identify any leaks as well. But this isn't like one of those, "I haven't played poker in years and I'm really rusty" threads.
Happens to all of us. Personally I find that a little time away from the normal grind plus hardcore study helps me because it lets my brain rest a little bit and then solidifies that I'm making the best plays I can.
Don't get me wrong, I am reviewing my hands to identify any leaks as well. But this isn't like one of those, "I haven't played poker in years and I'm really rusty" threads.
Do you have a couple of hands available that you can show how you're reviewing them, and what if anything you are identifying?
Understood.
Honest question. Do you think you are a better player than your results indicate? If so, why?
Absolutely.
I feel my game has improved greatly over the years, despite the lack of results. I have a better understanding of strategy, I feel (or at least felt, until recently) more confident than I used to, I noticed over time that when I would listen to a strategy podcast and think about how the hand should be played that my own perspective was very often in line with how the podcast hosts thought it should be played, and when I do have an opportunity to play live MTTs I actually do pretty well. That, and it seems that I frequently get knocked out on bad beats or coolers or whatever.
Do you have a couple of hands available that you can show how you're reviewing them, and what if anything you are identifying?
I posted some hands in the strategy forum a few weeks ago, but I haven't been able to play much lately so I don't have anything fresh. The process I follow is that I will download the hand histories for my session and then go through each one hand by hand to check for any obvious mistakes on preflop ranges and such. Any hand that requires a more in-depth look I will work through it street by street on a pad of paper, thinking through each element of the hand. If by the end of my analysis I'm not confident one way or another, I'll post the hand somewhere for feedback (usually in the 2+2 tourney strat forum.
I am planning on posting hands here as I work through things.
Did you play any tournies today? If so, how did it go?
I played a few. I was planning to do a full update once I've had a chance to review the hand histories, but I can share some general reflections:
The scoring system has potential as a mental game tool but I need to make some adjustments. It was actually difficult to keep up with, especially with respect to trying to score preflop ranges, but it definitely had some positive effects. I was noticeably more focused and attentive because I was paying very close attention to my preflop ranges and looking for spots to try things, so my attention wasn't wandering like it often does when I play online (checking baseball scores, X, etc).
That said, the session was more of the same in terms of results. I busted everything I played, and only got close to the bubble in a small turbo. But I'll have more to say once I've reviewed the hand histories.
I just finished going through the hand history for my one "deep" run of yesterday's session, in a small $15 turbo. Had 31 runners with top 5 spots paying. It was very symbolic of how things have been going for me during this bad run.
The tourney started very well. I got off to a great start with some pots I thought I played well (which I'll post later) and was chip leader for a good chunk of the tourney. Went a bit card dead towards the mid-late stages and dropped out of the lead, but remained a top 5 stack. Then the following hands take place:
Hand 1
GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 350/700 (85 ante) - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat
UTG: 33,819 (48 bb)
MP: 4,430 (6 bb)
CO: 9,470 (14 bb)
BU: 7,767 (11 bb)
SB (Hero): 24,249 (35 bb)
BB: 20,705 (30 bb)
Pre-Flop: (1,560) Hero is SB with J♣ A♣
1 fold, MP calls 700, 2 players fold, Hero raises to 4,200, BB calls 3,500, 1 fold
Flop: (9,610) 3♦ Q♠ 7♥ (2 players)
Hero bets 2,800, BB calls 2,800
Turn: (15,210) Q♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets 13,620 (all-in), SB (Hero) folds
Total pot: 15,210
BB wins 15,210
I had seen the MP limp a couple of times off a short stack, so I wasn't worried about the big hand limp trap. I raise nice and big to isolate him and get cold-called by the BB for almost 1/3 his stack. I think betting the flop was a mistake because I don't see villain cold calling 6x pre and then folding here, but that was a relatively small mistake. Just an annoying spot that knocked me below 30bb.
Hand 2
We're 8-handed now, so must have been 15-16 people left at this point. I haven't been able to do much since losing the pot above so now I'm down under 20bb.
GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 400/800 (100 ante) - 8 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat
UTG: 9,900 (12 bb)
UTG+1: 15,570 (19 bb)
MP: 10,000 (13 bb)
MP+1: 20,345 (25 bb)
CO (Hero): 14,564 (18 bb)
BU: 16,800 (21 bb)
SB: 25,345 (32 bb)
BB: 20,434 (26 bb)
Pre-Flop: (2,000) Hero is CO with Q♣ Q♦
2 players fold, MP calls 800, 1 fold, Hero raises to 2,400, BTN calls 2,400, 3 players fold
Flop: (7,600) J♦ A♥ K♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
Turn: (7,600) 7♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 1,600, Hero calls 1,600
River: (10,800) A♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets 12,700 (all-in), CO (Hero) folds
Total pot: 10,800
BU wins 10,800
So a different player limps off a short stack and I isolate him with my QQ, only to get cold-called again (also a different player). I end up having to x/fold on an awful runout.
Hand 3
9 left, 5 pay, and I'm sitting in 7th. I shove JJ with about 11bb and run into AA. Game over.
Hand 1 - Does anyone else shove here to isolate against the limper short stack? If the BB wakes up with a calling hand, so be it. Another option would be to raise less, entice the BB to call, then if the original limper shoves, their raise would be enough to re-open raising so you can re-shove and get BB to fold, putting some extra dead chips into the pot.
Hand 2 - I hate the 3x raise in this spot after a limp. Given stacks and action, I would shove here.
Hand 1 - Does anyone else shove here to isolate against the limper short stack? If the BB wakes up with a calling hand, so be it. Another option would be to raise less, entice the BB to call, then if the original limper shoves, their raise would be enough to re-open raising so you can re-shove and get BB to fold, putting some extra dead chips into the pot.
That's why I raised 6x, to effectively shove against the limper. It's highly, highly unusual to get someone cold-calling that kind of raise. I think shoving and putting 30bb effective at risk against the BB when I'm a top 5 stack would be too much risk.
Hand 2 - I hate the 3x raise in this spot after a limp. Given stacks and action, I would shove here.
You could be right. I would have shoved 15bb or less but 18bb seemed right around the borderline. I had seen a few cases of shorties limp/folding at this stage in the tourney, so I wanted to get some value with my hand.
Here's a hand from early in the $15 turbo that I was pleased with.
GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 80/160 (20 ante) - 5 players
Hand delivered by Pokeit
UTG: 9,475 (59 bb)
CO (Hero): 17,316 (108 bb)
BU: 8,845 (55 bb)
SB: 13,432 (84 bb)
BB: 10,932 (68 bb)
Pre-Flop: (340) Hero is CO with T♥ 9♥
1 fold, Hero raises to 480, 2 players fold, BB calls 320
Flop: (1,140) 8♦ 9♣ 6♥ (2 players)
BB bets 570, Hero calls 570
Villain donks half pot on a flop that is very good for his range, which is usually either a draw or weak value trying to push me off overcards. I don't see villain donking a set, 2P, or made straight here. I do have TP with a backdoor FD and gutter to the nut straight, so I call to see what develops on the turn.
Turn: (2,280) Q♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
He checks the overcard to the board so I think this confirms my flop read: he stabbed and is now giving up or hoping to get a free look at the river. I have showdown value and I don't have to worry too much about denying equity, so I check behind.
River: (2,280) 5♣ (2 players)
BB bets 1,140, Hero calls 1,140
Pretty ugly card as it completes all 7x straight draws and the backdoor flush draw. Villain can certainly have a lot of 7x in his range, but would he bet it with the flush card coming on the river I don't see him having the flush here because he likely would have bet again on the turn when he picked up the extra equity. My intuition is telling me he gave up on the turn and then decided to try and represent a big hand on a scary river card. If he bets pot I have a tougher decision on my hands, but I think he has enough bluffs or weak value he's turning into a bluff here when he bets half pot.
Total pot: 4,560
Showdown:
BB shows T♣ 2♥ (high card, Queen)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)
CO (Hero) shows T♥ 9♥ (a pair of Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 72%, Flop: 91%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)
CO (Hero) wins 4,560
Triple-barreling is something I rarely do so I included it on my scoresheet, but here's a spot where I might have missed an opportunity. This is from a $10 deepstack.
GGPoker, Hold'em No Limit - 1,000/2,000 (250 ante) - 8 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat
UTG: 253,409 (127 bb)
UTG+1: 103,961 (52 bb)
MP: 372,764 (186 bb)
MP+1: 87,680 (44 bb)
CO (Hero): 74,173 (37 bb)
BU: 191,958 (96 bb)
SB: 160,392 (80 bb)
BB: 100,000 (50 bb)
Pre-Flop: (5,000) Hero is CO with A♥ Q♣
4 players fold, Hero raises to 4,000, BTN calls 4,000, 1 fold, BB calls 2,000
Flop: (15,000) 6♥ A♦ 3♣ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 4,950, BTN calls 4,950, BB folds
Since he flatted pre I can remove AA and AK from his range, and this is a super dry flop in a multiway pot, so his call here strongly suggests a worse Ax and maybe some floats with 88-TT, along with strong hands like A6/A3/66/33.
Turn: (24,900) 9♣ (2 players)
Hero bets 9,960, BTN calls 9,960
This card does help a small portion of his range as A9 and 99 now pull ahead, and he does pick up a backdoor NFD with all his Axcc combos. I'm still ahead of most of his range, and almost all of it should call again, so I opt for the second bullet. If he does have one of those monsters, he'll let me know about it now. I choose a small size again to keep in all his weak value and to leave myself with slightly more than a PSB behind.
River: (44,820) T♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks
So like the 9 on the turn the river card improves a small part of his range, AT and TT, but I'm still ahead of AJ/A8/A7/A5/A4/A2. I have about 55k behind. If I'm right about his range he should call a third barrel and likely won't bluff his missed club draws because they're likely just Axcc. I think shoving here scares off his weak value. Is this a spot for a small triple-barrel, like 15k?
I don't know that it is a cut and dry river bet. The button could have something like 57 suited and was calling on the draw and might then bluff the river. I think check-call is ok in this spot, and if they check behind a worse ace, so be it.
I don't know that it is a cut and dry river bet. The button could have something like 57 suited and was calling on the draw and might then bluff the river. I think check-call is ok in this spot, and if they check behind a worse ace, so be it.
You think he gets to the river with a hand like 75cc?
This is why I so rarely triple-barrel, because I always get to the river and think, "I'll give him a chance to bluff." A successful triple-barrel requires the sweet spot of getting to the river with a hand that beats villain's range but villain's range weighted towards hands just good enough to call a third bet.
