Is THIS the Problem ?

Let me assure you .... none of this is a joke.

Nah, it's a joke.

But I like jokes!!

Just in case an image helps ..... check the stability of sea levels for the last 5k years. Almost perfectly flat. That's the version of Earth in which almost all human infrastructure has been built. Human civilization has no real acquaintance with the ocean swamping land.

What if countries dont want to be involved in this international treaty after you tell them about the homes in Florida?

There are 5 countries / blocs which have most of the leverage in this matter. China, US, EU, Russia and India.

If China and the US arrive at an agreement ..... there isn't really much that other nations can do to thwart it without running the risk of having their economy destroyed.

China has more coastal land and population at risk than all of Florida. They are motivated and are leading the world in renewable energy deployment.

Edit: Significant portions of northern Europe and Scandinavia can become uninhabitable if the overturning ocean circulation comes close to stopping.

One of the problems to be encountered in a world which uses less fossils fuels ..... economies like Russia's currently orbit around fossil fuel extraction. A lot of the Middle East as well.

I think a lot of Russia's war with Ukraine is associated with gaining more farmland and fertilizer to better secure a future food supply.

There is zero chance of that happening but we don't have to agree on that. Countries wont budge on nuclear talks over destroying the world but your 4000 year graphs and coastal real estate issues will do it?

I'm asking what are you going to do if we dont accomplish this international agreement? Is there an alternative plan? A backup plan?

Back-up plans are defeatist.

"Teamwork makes a dream work!"

"Where there's a will there's a way!"

"When did you become a card-carrying member of the Can't Do Club?"

"Lead, follow or get out of the way!"

There's only one serious plan. Create green alternatives and push their use. It's happening but with not enough urgency and far too late to stop so much

My sympathetic criticism of some of those campaigning/arguing we need to address climate change is they have been too self indulgent in ideas of political and behavioral changes. We need to understand the truth that en mass people will use alternatives but they will not go without until it's way too late. The key politics is to accelerate creation and take up of alternatives. That doesn't mean we shouldn't also push for behavioral/political changes - we should but that's slow and/or additional to the only thing that can really make the difference.

You have an interesting rhetorical style. You make a claim that international cooperation has zero chance of happening while acknowledging that we don't agree.

My counter claim is that is has a 100% chance of happening ..... although it may happen too late to make a difference.

Countries have in fact done a whole lot of budging on nuclear arms talks. After their original demonstration in war ...... we have gone 80 years without a repeat demonstration. Mutually assured destruction is the fear which keeps everyone in line. The people who win the struggle to gain control of nukes are ruthless about their own survival. Suicidal zealots only gain control of nukes in fiction novels. In real life .... they are showered with immense wealth and provided as many whores as someone like Jeffrey Epstein can provide.

Climate change is like an increasingly costly bombing campaign. $100B hurricanes. $70B wildfire in So Cal. 150,000 structures heavily damaged recently in Jamaica. Acapulco. Poof. Lahaina .... Poof. Asheville ... Poof. New Orleans ... Australian, Canadian & Siberian forests. Poof.

These translate into human conflict as a result of the powers that be realizing we're playing a game of musical chairs for a shrinking amount of resources. Gaza .... poof. Ukraine .... poof.

Eventually, we're going to arrive at a place where the only territory remaining to be taken belongs to nuclear powers. And that's when people at Trump, Putin and Xi's level make a deal to sacrifice tens of millions of normal citizens in order to consolidate their interests. FEMA is being cut ..... the poor ****ers in Florida and Louisiana who lose their homes to flooding will be dealing with bankrupt insurers who can't pay and a government which is going to show them what survival of the fittest is all about. We're on our own dude.

We in America have totally lost sight of how to define wealth. The founders had it right .... they understoodthat the goal of the Constitution was to make a "more perfect union". They understood that wealth was measured by the unity of the people. Now we are a sad and polarized lot clinging to our personal 401k statements and balance sheets and brainwashed thinking that will protect us from the social fabric of the nation being ripped to shreds while millions and millions fail.

We are so assaulted with digital inputs that we have lost track of our analog humanity. We are emotional creatures who long for connection and belonging to community with which we share a give and take relationship. We need community and cooperation and we have allowed the wealthy to brainwash us to believe that these are sinful desires. That communism is evil and everyone should aspire to self reliance. That's nonsense. No man is an island. We need each other. Our fates are intertwined just like those French fates were intertwined with those of the Germans whom they punished so grotesquely at Versailles that it resulted in Hitler and the Nazis. Indifference is a disease.

Right, it's happening because people prefer those alternatives over the status quo or because it makes life easier. If the green monsters of the world are slow to change, then the 150+ other countries will be far slower - and that doesn't even factor in those trying to develop.

And on top of that, countries compete over energy and the manufacturing. They aren’t lining up to coordinate, they are literally fighting for every inch and that's somehow going to end? We are in fairy tale land. We can't agree on simple trade talks, yet global emissions talk shouldn't be a problem

Okay, what happens if countries don't want to be involved in your international treat?

I was just thinking of an analogy in the form of a fairy tale.

Climate change is reminiscent of the Big Bad Wolf in the Three Little Pigs.

We need to build the equivalent of a stronger house because climate change is going to stress test us. At this point, avoiding horrible consequences is probably a pipe dream.

Just as the smartest pig used mortar to hold the bricks together in the house which didn't blow over ..... we will need to bind the people together into a cohesive unit into order to survive this enemy. This polarization that social media amplifies non-stop in order to distract us ..... we need to find a way to overcome it.

If someone like myself tries to promote an educational discussion ..... maybe there is an alternative path in which we ask questions about the topic instead of expressing contempt for the person trying to have that discussion. I don't gain anything monetarily or any other tangible advantage by trying to promote this discussion. The only thing I get is a healthy conscience from doing my best. None of the insults from other people means nearly as much to me as my conscience.

It saddens me to see that so much of public discourse has devolved into coarse trolling. I wish for a world where we can try to have each other's backs instead of knocking each other down.

Countries are comprised of people who want to survive. There is no natural reason for the average person to cling to a suicidal system when there is a more secure alternative.

To the extent that leadership becomes co-opted (as it is in the USA) by a small group of nobles who cling to the obsolete system which was the basis for their rise to power, then it becomes natural for the masses to revolt in some fashion. History shows regular examples of revolution and it need not be violent although it often is.

You are a citizen .... the ball gets rolling in the adaptive direction with a very simple action on your part. Your stating your preference. Do you want us to continue on the path of leaving the Earth's chemistry unmanaged and with the liberty to add unlimited pollution to the Earth's atmosphere, soil and waterways or do you want it to be managed ?

If you join me in saying that you want it managed, it builds momentum. Your voice matters. The characterization of those who want it managed shifts from "me" to "we".

I understand that it can be frightening to come out and say that the world should be run differently than the people in power are currently running it. That makes you part of the opposition.

I'm reminded of a quote by MLK Jr.

"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter".

I never thought about it that way.

What do we do if the whole world isn't on board with this treaty?

Survival of the fittest never stops.

We are in the process of consolidating regional power just as was done in the preamble to WW2 when Germany began to annex neighbors and Japan invaded China.

Russia is expanding into Ukraine and working out the boundaries between itself and the European Union. China has taken Hong Kong and has its eyes on Taiwan from a territorial perspective and has made reciprocal trade agreements with many nations which give them a lot of control over global minerals.

The US President has openly stated that he wishes to annex both Canada and Greenland in order to consolidate the hold on regional natural resources. He has unilaterally changed the name of the Gulf Of Mexico to Gulf of America and he has imposed significant tariffs on Canada which have the purpose of threatening their independence from the US. He has unilaterally decided to change the name of the Dept of Defense to Dept of War.

The law of the jungle is that might makes right and powerful actors are exercising their might. The reason we can't agree on trade is that one side is engaged in trying to force the other to submit to its will. It's no different than when two male lions go at it in the savannah for control of a pride. The bullies are at work .... in Gaza, Ukraine and in the tariff setting. The aspiration to annex Canada and Greenland is not a joke.

Sounds like Russia and Ukraine and China and Taiwan and Israel and Gaza are just a few convos away from agreeing on the acceptable amounts of particulates.

The problem with this primitive struggle for power is that all major parties have an incentive to maximize their power in the short term in order to not lose ground vs their perceived opposition.

So we are at war over who builds out the best and most capable AI the quickest. We are investing in all sorts of new military technology and still building out older technology like ships and aircraft.

The race for power amplifies the demand for energy and water to cool data centers and the amplified demand for energy increases the demand for fossil fuels. Renewable energy, while growing faster than ever, is only being used to meet incremental demand ..... baseline demand for fossil fuels is not shrinking. Each year we set a new record for emissions despite the scientific consensus telling us we need dramatic and immediate cuts.

The world does not orbit around what is best for the most people in the long term, The world orbits around the struggle for power TODAY.

At some point, TODAY runs into the future which has been a low priority. That has already begun to happen and the consequences are cascading. But they are not yet consequential enough to yield constructive adaptation. Things are going to become really horrific and painful en route to a future global awakening.

I think it's more constructive for you to identify what you want and ask yourself if you have the courage to get off the sidelines and take a position.

You have the power to set an example.

Adaptive revolution is a viral phenomena. The virus attaches itself to one person at a time and from that new person, several new hosts become available for further transferrence.

Don't spend too much time worrying about the whole world. Ask the questions you need to ask in order to learn what you need to learn in order to take the most educated position possible. Take those questions and answers and share them with others. Spread a good virus.

I try to reuse our old shopping bags when going to the grocery store. I admit it can be a little tempting to just pay the 10 cents but my wife may give me a sneer if I came home with a pile of single use plastic bags.

In order for anyone to truly consider their political positions, it is imperative to take an inventory of your personal tribal affiliations. Especially with respect to the attitude about self-sufficiency and interdependence.

These are concepts with some duality.

Personally, I, like many others, strive for maximum personal independence. I don't want to be compelled to follow the drama or corruption of another person because I need to in order to survive. I am fortunate to have my own home and sufficient resources to pay for my necessities. I wish everyone had the level of self sufficiency that I do at the moment.

But I'm not naive enough to understand that all of that can disappear rather quickly. We may have a depression or hyperinflation which wipes out the value of our currency. Something may happen to make social security stipends become unreliable. A new virus like Covid could come along and change everything.

So despite my personal self sufficiency of the moment ..... I believe that its wise for everyone to care about each other. In the Jewish faith I was born into, the same root word means both wise person (tzaddik) and charitable giving (tzedakkah). I understand that too many people failing undermines our society as a whole. When I read polls which indicate that 40% of American women aged 15-44 would like the opportunity to emigrate to another country, I understand that there is a flaw in the system somewhere. That is not exemplary of the more perfect union that the founding fathers had in mind when they drafted the constitution.

So I embrace interdependence.

Some people prefer a model where the church community is the vehicle for assisting those in need and are dead set against the government lending people a helping hand as it did during the New Deal under FDR.

I look at the US under FDR and see a big success story ..... a people that didn't allow the struggling class to become so desperate that they chose a Hitler to lead them out of it. That latter path is the path we have with Trump. He's not a nurturer like FDR. He's a killer like Hitler. The kind of leader who doesn't care about the cost of health insurance and has the capacity to go to battle in court in order not to have to pay SNAP benefits.

At the end of Game of Thrones, after Daenerys had torched the city of Kings Landing and demonstrated the kind of ruler / conquerer she would be, Tyrion told John Snow he had to make a choice. He let him know that Daenerys would probably end up killing his sister(s) along her path of liberation. He had to make a difficult choice and kill someone he loved for the greater good.

According to MLK Jr (and I agree), silence is evil. We have to make a choice about the world we want or bear the status quo in silence as it steamrolls over us.

If they didn't offer single use shopping bags, everyone would learn really quickly to follow your good example.

Where I live, disposable plastic bags are free and it's crazy how many are used.

I once lived in Wisconsin and the right wing state legislature was so hateful that they passed a law which made it illegal for any municipality to make their own rules regarding plastic bags.

A lot of people used to pour their motor oil down the storm drain when they changed their vehicle's oil. Some guys would use it for weed killer. That could have been the majority of people even in in blue states in the 80s and still might be today is in places like Missouri.