Another AA preflop spot / 2-5

With the fish/whale being in BB and us having position on both it's an easy flat.

Flat and pray you don't hit a set.

I would flat call given action and reads. Hitting a set may kill action, but also means you are generally winning. Would be concerned if K or Q hits, because 4-better probably has a lot of that.

I'd go all in and hope BB is in whale mode. You only profit vs the whale/fish by calling if he will call $225 but not the all in. To majorly profit he hits or has a hand that can call after the flop, and does not hit enough to win the pot. What are the odds of this vs the odds he calls the all in? If he is a fish trying to set mine that is willing to call the $225 knowing he is behind and knowing he is not getting proper odds I doubt knowing there are two players rather than just one he is behind will effect his play.

You calling $225 and being willing to bet with nothing hitting the board has issues that Mp1 is defined as a pro that respects your game and who knows you respect his; his hand is fairly face open so when you bet a blank board he could fold. Again what are the odds he would not call the all in vs seeing you trying to do an all in just on safe flops? Last but not least how much is it going to cost you if you break your untold agreement?

Forget the whale we’re about to stack the other guy. All in like we have AK.

Not sure what you mean by that, there’s no set agreement, its just obvious that we dont battle each other if there’s a bunch of fish but if we both have big hands (coolers) or if the table is tough then i’ll gladly battle.

What I mean is you stated you had an "untold agreement" that at some level you were playing each other differently than you were playing the fish in that you don't battle each other if there are enough fish. I simply assumed you meant what you wrote and calling to disguise your hand strength seemed to violate this "untold agreement" as there is a fish/whale in the hand.

Hey OP, what’s you image to the BB? To MP1? Whether to shove or call is wholly dependent on hero’s table image.

I play a bunch with BB, he doesn’t really care about image unless your an absolute maniac, he might notice but otherwise your just a standard player to him and he’s more focused on what he has.

To mp1 im a good tag player, aware of spots/situations.

In this spot if i jam, mp1 should be aware that im underbluffed since i know his 4bet is mostly value (QQ+,AK+) , mp1 is aware that his 4bet has very little to no fold equity with BB.

I guess the question is whether MP1 calls a shove with QQ or KK, or makes a big lay down. Whale might call a shove with AK or QQ+. I’m leaning shove.

If $225 has little to no fold equity vs whale what fold equity would an all in by you have? If you do not substantially increase the whale's chance of folding it is an easy all in. And mp1 realizes when you call his $225 you have a hand that wants/is willing to play vs that range. And if you bet a non Q, K flop into a whale that rarely folds you are mostly value vs his range.

Whale is calling range the 225$ which is like 56s+ 22+,KJo+, ATo+ , if i jam i think he is only calling TT+ AQ+

Yep. Don’t forget possible meta-game.

i mean shoving here has to be awful compared to flat

i really not even sure what the ev difference is. reg's range is maybe? QQ+,AK and he prob folds qq / ak to jam and bb will likely never call off vs the jam whereas if u call he likely continues 100% of the time. prob 30-40bb error if i had to guess

feels like the post is some kind of bad beat where either whale ducked op or flop came ace high and we didnt stack kk tbh. dont even get the point of the post. its a flat, op knows its a flat based on his responses in the thread. what are we doing here

Is it really that obvious to flat? So far in the thread its 3 shoves vs 4 flats

yes. everyone good has told u to flat and the rest should be muted

idk guys should i play my hand vs the guy im soft colluding with or vs literal whale. tough decision

i think a more interesting question is if you should 3b the first time but given what u think his cold call range is i think its fine / maybe best

People who want to shove are afraid of seeing flops.

You guys realize we stack all these hands on most flops too right? The idea is to keep a whale with a wide range in this hand and not force both the whale and the reg to make tough lay downs because lets be real, it's not like we're ever 5b shoving anything but AA here.

You guys need to stop being so afraid of playing post flop poker.

No people who shove want to get stacks in and think that they are more likely to get them in pre-flop.

Scared of what? We will be all in on either flop or turn on every runout if we flat. That’s not scary at all, that’s easy game.

I think shoving is better because MP is ready to gii and the whale might do whale things and he might not.

Calling the 4! seems like FPS and greed motivated that we won't get MP1 to come along if we 5!AI. I would shove and be content to win 180 big blind stack.

Okay, I read the HH incorrectly. Considering your "untold agreement", MP1 should interpret your 3! as "hey I have a strong hand get out of my way". Calling the 4! is definitely the correct play here.

As far as the agreement - I would not have one. So what happens when you have position and he ISO wide to target bad players? Do you decline opportunities to 3! ?

Exactly. That makes shoving bad. Not good. Why give MP a reason to fold? It’s not like a 200bb 5b shove at 2/5 isn’t always AA……

He is never 4b light after the whale cold calls, he’s probably not folding. The reason for him to fold would be him not liking the flop.

I get the temptation to flat and I don’t think it’s bad by any means. We have two good options here and both ways are very profitable and easy to play.

If this hand was posted from MP and he had QQ/KK or AK how many here would say he should call the 5b shove from a reg for 200bb in these positions? Would you say it’s a call? Doubt it.