1/2: AA in 3-way 4b pot, $900 deep

Preflop is good. At the Flop, the SPR is less than 1 so checking is completely fine. I think it's actively good. We're either almost dead or crushing. If we're almost dead the money goes in regardless. So no reason to build a pot here. This isn't a 3bet pot; the SPR matters. Checking twice is still fine. If Hero just jammed the Turn after the two bets, I think the hand would be perfectly played. So there's one wrong decision in there. It's a big one, but I'm pretty sure one wrong decision doesn't make it the worst played hand in a while. There are hands here where every street is a mistake.

Thanks.

Is there a reason x/j turn for a dry side pot is better than x/c vs a reg who will fold everything except JJ/KK to the jam?

The thinking revealed in this sentence is the reason why this hand went off the rails. K88 wasn't a bad flop for your hand. Sure, it isn't as good as 246r, and it is definitely possible that one of the villains has KK. But it is even more likely that one of the villains has AK, in which case this flop is close to perfect for your hand.

I also wouldn't be worried about losing QQ/JJ if you bet the flop. You might lose them, but you are unlikely to get much more out of those hands on later streets by checking the flop.

If bolded sentence is true, then x/c is better than x/j. But it seems hard to believe because of the price they're getting. The amount they have to call is 660-240=420, and the total pot is 720+240+660+660=2280. This means paying 420 to win 2280, so 18.5% equity. Without JJ and KK they probably have less than that after you x/j, but I still doubt most people find the fold there.

I agree. Preflop was a little big both times, but you got action. Flop and turn checks are OK, although betting would have been fine too.

However, folding the turn was such a huge mistake, and threw away so much in equity not knowing their hands and in actuality. It wasn't badly misplayed on every street. Just one huge blunder.

You can’t assume that the “reg” is folding anything that isn’t a boat to the jam. This is a guy who put in $240 preflop (and again postflop!!) with a JX hand. That’s 120 big blinds both times! That is not a play that a good player makes. It is also not a play that a tight player makes.

The reg is stacking off with KX here. The best way to stack KX is to bet yourself though because xjam looks too strong.

Cbetting is a little better. For one thing, you don't want to give 2 players free cards to hit a set or two pair.

You say you don’t want to lose QQ/JJ (which I agree) but what is your plan for extracting money from them? Hope they put in money themselves on the turn? Because this is what happened and we folded.

It’s a 4b pot, we don’t have to go big relative to the pot size, leading flop $150 puts QQ/JJ in a very annoying spot

Why post the worst when you should already know what mistake(s) were made? It's the tweener hands that are the tough ones. And this is not a tweener hand.

OP posted the hand for discussion and that's what we are doing. There's a difference between shitting on OP and pointing out mistakes in a hand.

Players at 1-2 are looking for any reason at all to call bets. Why do you think one of the players in this hand called $240 pre with "just a jack". That's why the flop is such a simple shove with a low SPR. This way a player has two cards to get lucky instead of just one, in their minds anyway.

Every time I play I am amazed at the trash players call all-ins with. That's why we play, to fleece these players. But if you don't shove they can't call. And in this case even if they fold you still win a $720 pot in a friggin' 1-2 game!

idk the turn is probably a 200+bb error just eyeballing it. somewhat disingenous comparison but this is around 25x as large of an error as shoving 72o for 100bb utg pre at an 8 handed table not assuming omniscience for the callers. with no exagerration this is one of the biggest mistakes i have ever seen in bb for a hand from an alleged nonwhale, which is a product of the pot size / stacks.

this forum in general fairly toxic because lots of ego / doubt / insecurity and little skill along with no verification of results, but that doesn't mean this isnt one of the actual largest errors posted. its ok to make mistakes and dont really see the point of shaming people as this is predominantly a beginner board, and honestly most of the people with the largest egos on here should be doing the least posting (except me!!!!) lol

i do think the guy telling him is out of line but i think youre doing op a large disservice by pretending like this is ok or a small-medium sized error

interestingly mp supposed to bluff the turn w Jx and co supposed to pure fold qq and only get to the river with AK+. am not sure what to think about pre as MP, if co wasn't behind him would be call with bunch of Jxss hands

will say when i force oop to check aa sim more or less ends up breaking but if 2 opps are playing post well with poor pre ranges he is basically indifferent with AA

so maybe i wrong about the quality of error here too and we all owe op an apology

hard to find an accurate way to sim this without locking every node for everyone but i guess idea is JJ is enough of both players ranges and theres no draws that mp should be hyper polar and btn should be strong as well. dunno. in practice probably people arent going to play great but yeah i was wildly incorrect it appears

w that said

flop strat is pure bet

and turn if flop checks through is still pure bet though i guess proceed with caution. would interpret that as we have good equity vs ranges esp considering size of the pot but when we check theyre really just incentivized to bet a very strong / polar range

Difficult to model 1/3 pros who call 4!s for a big portion of their stack with a J.

i looked at this a bit more.

heres turn if guy in the middle stabs and co folds. keep in mind this is pot/10 to be able to sim it in gtow so this would be a large error to fold

heres turn if middle checks and co stabs

its just really when it goes bet call that is super grim for us.

updated ev for man in middle stab and button call when i give btn more stab sizes (i think the sim just gets broken bc its nodelocked and fractional combos) but its become a large mistake again

i do at least think the caution is warranted here though having explored a bit when i initially thought it was crazy. ultimately we probably cant fold though in both theory and practice

Even against OP’s sizings? I understand they are super deep and it would normally be standard to call the 4bet with JTs etc but this is open to 9bb and 4bet to 120bb.

well the 3b was larger than normal but i would imagine we dont see a 4b this size without a cold caller

oddly i dont see a ton of correlation between fold to 4b w AJss / Jtss based on the sizing. seem to peel about the same amount vs 3x and 3.75x and then finally start 5 / folding AJss at 4.5x, jtss still peeling. vs 6x 4b jtss still peels, again sandwiched idk. its kind of hard to find any sims at all with coldcalling enabled and then cant really compare them. if u look at 200bb 6m it allows button to cold call 3bs and guy in the middle really isnt calling much at all

in my experience people peel 4bs way too wide as they get deeper thinking implied odds blah blah when we're supposed to be tighter

am wrong tiny 3b massive open lol

Granted, if you go by the "EV delta in BBs" metric, this error is pretty huge. That's not the metric I'd use to determine worst played hand though. I'd use something more like how understandable the decision is, or how much it tells you about skill level of the OP, which would not scale linearly with the size of the pot. I maintain that by that metric, there've been much worse hands posted recently.

(And if we do use your metric, my fold here might actually be worse than this one. Depends on what range you give Villain, but results suggest I could have won 200 BB instead of losing 50.)

OP are you opening to 18 with premiums and less with the AJ and KQs of the world?

i understand what you're saying but thats still worse than losing 120 instead of winning 650

wish id pointed out pre strategy is flawed, and flop is range bet, and you can't get off the ride in low spr situations also but got caught up in solving. basically every street either looks like fear of playing deep or playing with all of our money on the table and afraid to lose it. is hard to accept the open and 4b sizes are tactically thought out given weak tightness post

Thanks for the detailed analyses guys.

I feel I played the hand perfect by getting both of them to put $240 each on turn, I just shouldn’t have folded.

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But do you realize pretty much everybody suggested bet or shove the flop?

Flop and turn checks were probably slight mistakes. Preflop sizings are not standard, but might be good based on how the table and players in the hand were playing.