USA Goes to War Against Iran
Time for a dedicated thread to the war.
How long will it last and what will be the probable outcome?
Do you believe that the feelings of the women in burqas or the government's treatment of women generally in burqas were a big factor in this administration's decision to go to war? I don't.How the Iranian government treats women is important, of course, but it is basically irrelevant when deciding whether to go to war unless there is a realistic chance that the war will leave
No, of course not. If so, this administration would have intervened earlier during the protest killings.
I’m not arguing for or against the war. I’m just pushing back on the idea that the U.S. is somehow the primary bad actor in every geopolitical situation. The U.S. has absolutely done harmful things throughout the world, but there’s a reason most NATO countries and their allies are comfortable with U.S., U.K., and French nuclear deterrence while broadly agreeing that Iran should not have nuclear weapons. Ignoring that difference in order to preserve a simplistic “America bad” narrative isn’t serious analysis.
No, of course not. If so, this administration would have intervened earlier during the protest killings.I’m not arguing for or against the war. I’m just pushing back on the idea that the U.S. is somehow the primary bad actor in every geopolitical situation. The U.S. has absolutely done harmful things throughout the world, but there’s a reason most NATO countries and their allie
Is it possible all parties involved are bad with one party being significantly worse?
I'm pretty sure I can condemn the usa for constantly trying to enforce our will on countries by bombing the crap out of them and still condemn the governments of said countries. I'm not victor and I'm pretty sure most of the people against this bombing don't believe that somehow the ayatollah and his regime are the good guys.
They have massive economic issues my friend I don't know why you think bombing them would help?
You're just proving my initial post further while continuing to overlook my statements in support of the war, which I'm not in support of.
Economic issues were one point. There were many protest movements happening in Iran over the last several decades, and they were gaining momentum. It's one of the primary reasons I'm against the war. They had union groups making progress, women's movements, and large youth movements. I'd much rather have continued to support those groups and work diplomatically to resolve weapons concerns.
What I'm calling BS on is that the US is the primary back actor, and there isn't something to be concerned in Iran. You have to seriously have your head in the sand, or just be willfully ignorant, to not see the problem of radicalized Islam in Iran. And if you're going to blame the US for that, you can save it. I'm not going to respond.
Short list of why they were really protesting:
Morality police - this was a HUGE issue w/ women
The hijab
free speech
working conditions
Supreme leader in general
inflation
unemployment
I hear you.
This is a complex topic honestly, and it's muddled by the US having the most incompetent and corrupt administration in its history. They just touched the 3rd rail by invading Iran, something military experts have warned against for decades. And now that they've stumbled into this mess, we need to be able to hold more than one idea in our heads at a time here. Starting this wasn't good, but Iran poses real threats to many countries, and it has anti-democratic ideals, and is against open and free societies. It's something we should all be condemning.
I agree I'm just not sure why it's impossible to be against the Iranian regime and be against the US continuing to get involved in wars it shouldn't get involved in.
Starting this wasn't good, but Iran poses real threats to many countries, and it has anti-democratic ideals, and is against open and free societies. It's something we should all be condemning.
Other than Victor, who doesn't condemn this?
But, but, but.. Sleepy Joe.
Trump, 79, Admits He Was Falling Asleep During War Planning Meeting
seriously, what threat does Iran pose to other countries? when have they attacked any other countries?
and the nuclear bomb thing is about the dumbest thing ever. Iran signed the JCPOA and followed it, the Supreme Leader had a fatwa against it, the oversight agencies and Western intelligence concluded they werent pursuing it, and in the latest "negotiations" they agreed to literally give away all of their nuclear material.
its just so narcissistic and Supremacist.
See... here come all the usual suspects in this thread.
A lot of younger people don't realize that they are being just as radicalized online as Islamist extremists. The function is the same. There are massive anti-USA propaganda machines on social media by foreign actors, targeting US citizens by psychological profile and skillfully manipulating and brainwashing them.
I just listened to a democracynow! podcast (shout out to independent media - we need more LEGIT indie media), where an Iranian man was talking about how the morality police got his mother thrown into jail (and beaten) for 6 months because she had the audacity to suck on a mint in public.
When you don't have it that bad, it’s often difficult to see the forest for the trees.
Meh, I'm 68 and have lived it.
seriously, what threat does Iran pose to other countries? when have they attacked any other countries?
Iran has spent most of the last few decades attacking Israel through its terrorist proxies, being sworn to that state's destruction. It acts against Sunni states by promotion of conflict. It also poses a threat to Western states in terrorist, intelligence and cyber-subversion terms, and is the only country in the world now likely to use nuclear weapons once it has them (not counting the United States, which used them in a world war when conventional bombing had already achieved greater destruction-- see the Tokyo raid of 9 March 1945).
The supposed nuclear deal with the US was just the mullahs and the IRGC buying time to achieve nuclear capability, as everybody surely knows.
It's really us against the Elite Billionaire Epstein class and our bickering is the result of propaganda to keep us looking at each other instead of them.
No... that's part of it.
There are real threats that exist to open societies and democracies as well. As messy and greedy as the US has been w/ it's exploitation of people, resources, and land, it's still better than most countries in the Middle East.
If you want to have an honest conversation, then answer this:
You are married and have a wife and 3 daughters, one of whom is gay. If you had to raise your family in the Middle East, which country would you pick to provide legal protections for women’s rights, free expression, and LGBTQ people?
I grew up in LA, where many of my neighbors were immigrants that fled various countries, and I've heard countless stories firsthand that would make your head spin. All of them were immensely grateful for the US. If you were born here, you just don't have enough perspective unless you actively try to educate yourself about all sides of international socio-economic issues.
Iran has spent most of the last few decades attacking Israel through its terrorist proxies, being sworn to that state's destruction. It acts against Sunni states by promotion of conflict. It also poses a threat to Western states in terrorist, intelligence and cyber-subversion terms, and is the only country in the world now likely to use nuclear weapons once it has them (not cou
if they wanted nukes then they would have already had them. its just White Supremacism to think they couldnt have created them already and to think they are hellbent on mass murder.
I grew up in LA, where many of my neighbors were immigrants that fled various countries, and I've heard countless stories firsthand that would make your head spin. All of them were immensely grateful for the US. If you were born here, you just don't have enough perspective unless you actively try to educate yourself about all sides of international socio-economic issues.
Except now, this administration is hell bent on removing every single one of them. I'm not sure how grateful they are when they're being tossed into concentration camps.
But I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.
Except now, this administration is hell bent on removing every single one of them. I'm not sure how grateful they are when they're being tossed into concentration camps.
But I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.
We can only hope that this is a bad blip on the American historical timeline. This is where the function of radicalization of religion plays out everywhere. America is fighting for democracy and a secular society once again from a radicalized Christian coalition. If we let it fester, it will devolve into something very similar to what Iranians are fighting against in Iran. If you don't denounce and stop bad ideas, they will grow into systems of power that enforce themselves.
Iran has spent most of the last few decades attacking Israel through its terrorist proxies, being sworn to that state's destruction. It acts against Sunni states by promotion of conflict. It also poses a threat to Western states in terrorist, intelligence and cyber-subversion terms, and is the only country in the world now likely to use nuclear weapons once it has them (not cou
Haven't we heard this for well over 30 years now? Certainly not denying Iran's actions in the middle east like Victor does but I don't believe for a second they were a real threat to the US regardless of the chants.
if they wanted nukes then they would have already had them. its just White Supremacism to think they couldnt have created them already and to think they are hellbent on mass murder.
They certainly want them, they just haven't been able to get them yet, for reasons like the recent air attacks on the centrifuge sites.
