USA Goes to War Against Iran
Time for a dedicated thread to the war.
How long will it last and what will be the probable outcome?
So are you referring to refugee status here? Because it’s just common knowledge that Palestinian refugees get special treatment. I mean idk what else to say besides go do the basic amount of preliminary research to discuss this topic.
It’s odd that you recognize that the Palestinians have been forced into a no win situation by the Arab and Muslim world, forced to fight against Israel until the death but instead of assigning any blame to the Arabs and Muslims you blame the Jews. Very curious.
My Friend Moshe in Tel Aviv says Hezbollah will not be abiding by the ceasefire.
So are you referring to refugee status here? Because it’s just common knowledge that Palestinian refugees get special treatment. I mean idk what else to say besides go do the basic amount of preliminary research to discuss this topic.It’s odd that you recognize that the Palestinians have been forced into a no win situation by the Arab and Muslim world, forced to fight against
You are correct regarding the Palestinian refuge status.
ah, so you're talking about formal benefits from the UN?
tbh I forgot that the UN mattered or really did anything
I was talking any social sentimentality
ah, so you're talking about formal benefits from the UN?
tbh I forgot that the UN mattered or really did anything
I was talking any social sentimentality
Well considering Hamas was basically a legitimate arm of the UN I think you have some catching up to do. Maybe revisit the thread when you’ve educated yourself on the pertinent information. Have a good day brother.
that's a pretty big leap leap from what I'm seeing, that a handful of aid workers participated in the October attack
the refusal to call Hamas a terrorist organization isn't a great look
UN workers participated in Oct 7th and the UNRWA was basically a mechanism to funnel funds to Hamas while doing everything in their power to extend the violence. There’s a reason it’s been shut down without any resistance from the UN.
Again, it’s weird that you seem to acknowledge that the UN and the UNRWA are perpetuating the Palestinians plight with the only goal of having them wage a forever war but you seem to attribute blame to Israel.
Basically any way you look at it the Palestinians have no claim to the land. The ancient Israelites were there before them and the present day Israelis are there now and that’s not going to change after the events of 1947.
I was talking about the legality of Israel’s establishment in response to Victor’s lies. I agree the settlements are illegal.But again from Israel’s perspective the settlements are now a necessary buffer zone between them and radial terrorists who aren’t receptive to diplomacy. If you want resistance by any means, Israel will have to respond in kind.
I get that you were just rebutting but your justification apply just as much to those who see the horrors and theft from Israel.
Israel absolutely didn't have to respond the way they have*. The west isn't going to have to deal and probably wont. The region will have to deal with it. Israel desperately needs to find it's way back to political solutions and it's going to be slow and hard. Relying on a sufficient power advantage to survive is incredibly risky.
*It's incredible how quickly the unthinkable gets spun as the only option
I get that you were just rebutting but your justification apply just as much to those who see the horrors and theft from Israel. Israel absolutely didn't have to respond the way they have. The west isn't going to have to deal and probably wont. The region will have to deal with it. Israel desperately needs to find it's way back to political solutions and it's going to be slow a
Israel is open to negotiations with the majority of the Middle East. They were well on the way to normalizing relations with the Saudis before Oct 7th. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the rest of the ME gravitate towards Israel as opposed to Iran in the near future. Iran has solidified itself as a sinking ship and a major threat to the GCC.
You desperately want Israel to be the “bad guys” but that’s just not how the real world, especially the ME operates. It’s not a comic book.
And it’s been mentioned multiple times now but it seems like Israel is largely done entertaining fake diplomatic efforts that are just cover for militants to continue terrorizing their citizens.
I don't desperately want israel to be the bad guy. I don't want that at all. I want them to return to politics and law rather than war crimes and theft.
I'm sure they are open to negotiations but such disregard for law and life makes it about power. Still have to start at some point but so many long lasting festering sores, fear and bitterness among those who weren't radical or terrorists makes it extremely risky.
The attitude of it's justified to make everyone pay for the crimes of others in the name of defense cuts both ways.
I don't desperately want israel to be the bad guy. I don't want that at all. I want them to return to politics and law rather than war crimes and theft.I'm sure they are open to negotiations but such disregard for law and life makes it about power. Still have to start at some point but so many long lasting festering sores, fear and bitterness among those who weren't radical or
How so? The Palestinians have nothing to defend. They’ve spent 80 years of blood and money to accomplish literally nothing. They built a bunch of underground tunnels that regular ole Palestinians aren’t even allowed to enter. What exactly are they defending? Their entire purpose is to wage a forever war against Israel.
If Hamas had any intention of defending the Gazans they would have let them enter the tunnels instead of using them as human shields. It’s really simple.
That is simple but it doesn't address any of the problems or begin to justify what netanyahu has done
A lot of foreign people and parties in positions of power with their heads in the sand has chosen to treat Hamas as a legitimate government, even long after they stayed in power through first changing the election system to a point where it was essentially rigged, but resorted to a systemic campaign of violence when their power was threatened. That has clearly been a problem.
Similarly, also a problem is a succession of "conservative" Israeli parties and cabinets which has long since crossed the threshold into nationalism and ethnic cleansing, policies so callously carried out they undoubtedly helped fuel Hamas' recruitment. Like nationalists are prone to do, they sidelined competent people that could make them look bad, which created an intelligence vacuumed that allowed Hamas not only to recruit, but also to arm and organize to the point where the 7th of October were made possible.
Iran's role in that theatre is another ballgame, and is complex to the point where it would took a book merely to summarize it. Suffice to say that they fit in with the morons mentioned above to a tee. The US looked at all these idiots and somewhere along the lines in Trump II decided that they could be even dumber.
And now they are all parties in a conflict fuelled by the illusion that the next tactical victory will surely be the final one that resolves the issue for good. A sentiment which has been local tradition for longer than our nations have existed, and will likely still be ongoing long after we are dead and buried.
A lot of foreign people and parties in positions of power with their heads in the sand has chosen to treat Hamas as a legitimate government, even long after they stayed in power through first changing the election system to a point where it was essentially rigged, but resorted to a systemic campaign of violence when their power was threatened. That has clearly been a problem.
Hamas won the elections in Gaza and the West Bank in free and fair elections as vouched by election observers such as Jimmy Carter. the US and Israel then armed and funded Fatah to start a civil war. Hamas prevailed in Gaza but was never able to take their seats in the West Bank.
as usual, to Westerners, elections and democracy only matter when their side wins.
and ofc the most likely reason that Hamas won those election was bc the people of Palestine did not support Arafat's capitulation at Oslo.
naturally, you have no issue with Abbas's reign in the West Bank and lack of elections since 2006.
all of this stuff is easy to find on wikipedia. its not even some devious communist terrorist narrative.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Pales...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatah%E2%8...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Pales...
not to mention the absurdity criticizing people under a brutal siege for not being democratic enough for the Western liberal.
Oh all Jews and all Arabs are descended from the same recent ancestors? Do you want to amend this statement or are you sticking to it?
*yawn*
More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.
The results match historical accounts that some Moslem Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel and the Sinai. They were descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times. And in a recent study of 1371 men from around the world, geneticist Michael Hammer of the University of Arizona in Tucson found that the Y chromosome in Middle Eastern Arabs was almost indistinguishable from that of Jews.
Her team examined the Y chromosomes of 119 Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews and 143 Israeli and Palestinian Arabs. Many of the Jewish subjects were descended from ancestors who presumably originated in the Levant but dispersed throughout the world before returning to Israel in the past few generations; most of the Arab subjects could trace their ancestry to men who had lived in the region for centuries or longer.
And promptly never had another election again. You really love your dictator regimes don't you?
And this thread's about Iran anyway.
who cares? they have been under siege. did Abbas have elections? does your boy Zelensky have elections?
does America and Israel have elections? right and we get Trump and Bibi. does Russia have elections? you dont like those results tho amirite.
I'm not sure which western governments supported hamas. There may be some but they're proscribed in the uk sicne 2000
There's netanyahu allegedly
n an interview with Israeli journalist, Dan Margalit in December 2012, Netanyahu told Margalit that it was important to keep Hamas strong, as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Netanyahu also added that having two strong rivals, this would lessen pressure on him to negotiate towards a Palestinian state.[10] In an interview with the Israeli Army Radio in August 2019, Ehud Barak, the former Prime Minister of Israel from 1999 to 2001, said that Netanyahu's main strategy is to keep Hamas "alive and kicking" in order to weaken the Palestinian Authority, even at the expense of "abandoning the citizens [of the south]."[41] In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said, "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas", before adding that "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza."[42]
At a Likud party conference in 2019, Netanyahu said: "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas ... This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."[43][44] Netanyahu responded to the accusations of funding and strengthening Hamas by calling them "ridiculous".[45] In an interview with Time in 2024, he denied of giving support to Hamas and said that it was one of "many misquotes" attributed to him.[46]
And promptly never had another election again. You really love your dictator regimes don't you?
And this thread's about Iran anyway.
I'm actually gonna defend Victor here. It's not unreasonable to connect the Military-Industrial Complex war with Iran with Israel's genocide in Gaza and other Gaza-related issues.
