USA Goes to War Against Iran

I agree with all this.

But when someone publicly expresses a wish for someone to die, it is fair to critique it. Hatred poisons the soul. Trump himself being a good example.

I think it was 2009 when an Arizona pastor prayed that God would strike President Obama dead. His sermon went viral, but the good news is that the pastor was almost universally condemned by everyone of all political and religious stripes.

I think the majority of rational people want Trump to face a jury of his peers for the various crimes that he has been accused and if found guilty, punished as any other person would.

Of course, but they also realise that it's unheard of for that to happen to a Western leader, at least since Nuremberg, shrug their shoulders and wish death or obscurity on them instead because realpolitik is about making compromises and deals with opponents and the political class stick together.

Even Sarkozy got off lightly.

Serious criminal punishment is never going to happen. I long ago reconciled myself to the fact that Trump would never spend a day in prison and that the absolute best case in terms of criminal punishment (assuming guilt was proven beyond a reasonable doubt) would be house arrest at Mar-A-Lago. To state the obvious, the U.S. prison system was not designed to house former presidents.

My best case scenario was that (i) Trump would lose in 2024; (ii) his loss would cause him to fall badly out of favor in the GOP; (iii) because of (i) and (ii), he would come to be viewed as a toxic loser by the entire political class; and (iv) he would live the rest of his life in public disgrace.

Too much to hope for, I know.

That does not happen to US presidents.

It doesn’t happen to UK Prime Ministers either.

They don't have immunity. Boris Johnson was fined over Partygate while in office, and Rishi Sunak was fined for not wearing a seatbelt while in office, though these fixed-penalty notices weren't criminal convictions. Walpole was impeached and given six months in the Tower for corruption, but that was before he became prime minister (the first to hold that title).

Asquith could have faced Official Secrets Act charges in 1914 over the Flimsies Affair and his unauthorised disclosures to his mistress, but Special Branch weren't going to interfere in the machinery of government when no actual harm was done. (Asquith was warned, though.) Lloyd George's corruption in the sale of honours to swell party funds was epic, but may not have broken the law as it stood at the time. Eden gave an illegal order to assassinate Colonel Nasser, but the intelligence service just refused.

Just as well that Tony Blair and his cabinet didn’t do anything illegal.

.

I'm well aware that it will never happen, and if he is actually tried and is found guilty, no real punishment will occur.

But it is what the majority of this country wants.

Pahlavi just blasted the European countries. Out of the 150 European journalists not one asked about or talked about the 40k civilians killed by Iran. There is no doubt Europe has been compromised.

Or it’s just that they dont believe it.

So you do sometimes cheer on deaths?

At least we don't have to hear what Charlie Kirk has to say about it.

In fact I'd say Charlie Kirk dying is one of the best things of the past ten years. Legal weed, robot vacuum, lack of Charlie.

Sorry, I know Charlie Kirk jokes are getting old. But he isn't.

This is an amazing gotcha, mongidig. I don't know how you come up with this stuff. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

If anyone wonders whether mongidig's great work is limited to this forum, just check out the containment thread in SE for "Terrible/Troll/Incendiary/Douchebag Posting." mongidig has made 20 of the last 23 posts in the thread. Just in there mumbling to himself.

Fair enough. But I was actually thinking of asking you the same question.

Incredible how every other subforum has found a way to deal with guys like Mongo.

Perhaps equally incredible is that Mongo/Elway isn't even the worst poster in this forum.

Odd, because your actual response was:

In any case, if you find your thinking converging with the thinking of mongidig, it's more likely a you problem than a me problem.

If Kirk had died in an accident or from an illness, I could see this being on point. But the fact that he was assassinated has galvanized his audience rather than diminish it. Martyrdom will do that.

I wouldn't say Europe is compromised per se. I would say due to poor political decisions they have no military strength or will, and their economies are hollowed out and they have extreme energy insecurity and are hence heavily dependent on bad actors.

So they are always forced to compromise, and everyone knows this, and so they are forced to make compromises from a position of extreme weakness and can be walked all over.

For good or bad generally Europe decided that history was over for them, and they would basically just be the world's retirement home stuck in time, while the rest of the world marched on.

I don't think you have a problem, and I don't think I have a problem. Just curious (based on your own words) if you have ever celebrated the death of anyone.. Not judging, just curious.