ClubWPTGold - RNG discussion

Thanks for the report. Did you notice how many buy-ins he was in for? Did you end up seeing how long he played and what he left with? Are these really your first posts on here or is this a different account? Just curious if we have a new witness. The more people who are noticing this the better in getting more evidence. I haven't been playing much on there so I don't have much new to report. Other then the amount of low stakes PLO tables running has really dried up.

Ensure all the screenshots are sent to Gold to investigate, if this player is doing this regularly it is possible super-user territory. Given this site is a training site I highly doubt they have the sophisticated security systems that more established operators use and are therefore more vulnerable to exploits. As we know this happened at GG of all sites so not beyond the bounds of possibility.

These are my first posts, I usually don't post any forums at all, but this was just too ridiculous in addition to the player's history posted before. He sat down at the table after I did and within 20 minutes or so stacked me twice with the hands I mentioned. I had already ran into him twice before and it was the same type of play and his having an outrageous number of bb's in front of him the past few weeks. I'm pretty sure he was only in for a single buy in but I wasn't paying close enough attention to say for sure. You can see that between the first and second screen shots, which was less than an hour apart, there were no other players with huge stacks and the max buy in is 200bb. I don't know how he ended up doing, I went to bed after the second screenshot.

Another thing I noticed regarding his play is that his decisions are pretty instant, within 1 second of his turn, and the longest I saw him take was maybe 2 seconds. The playout seemed like a similar pattern from hand to hand from what I could tell, where he would call down flop and turn then pot the river either as a raise or just lead if he was oop. In the specific hands that I played against him, both times I flopped the nuts and all the money goes in on the turn and he ends up rivering me - seemed like setup hands to get as much of my money in the pot while I had the best hand until the river. In one hand, he called the flop with absolutely nothing, no pair or draw, turned an open ended straight draw, and hit on the river after the money went in on the turn. It went 5 ways to the flop and he had 3 players to act after him, so his 50bb call on the flop made no sense at all. In the second hand, he flopped a 10 high flush draw, again in a multi-way pot, all the money went in on the turn. Not as suspect as the first hand, but it's hard to believe someone playing like that could do so consistently well, also considering that he has a 90%+ VPIP.

Ive registered about 120k hands in the NL100 streets and sometimes I feel like an inkling that there is nonsense going on but there are also times I get floated by 50/10 fish on K83 when they have Q9o and my 77 will win at showdown after they show no plan to bluff later streets, so I think its mostly just very poor play from people that watch 1 rampage video on youtube and think "gee I can do that".

Wearing the tinfoil hat and getting all worked up without hard evidence seems foolish

The comment about lack of access to hand history database surely does raise an eyebrow for me though

go sit with OPPMoney at PLO and if you have a winning session then get back to me. whether or not people are winning at other tables doesn't mean there aren't super users/cheaters. if the above stacks and hand examples aren't enough for you then don't contribute to the discussion.

Asking someone to “go sit with X and come back” isn’t evidence, it’s deflection. You have a couple very unique situations and in your mind come to a definite conclusion. Wasting time overanalyzing yet seems futile.

i've withdrawn somewhere around $20k from wptgold. multi-tabling through about 210k hands so far.

watch for the maniacs winning all in pots with gutters and all the money going in on the turn. that's after playing 68o for a 3 bet or T9o for a 4 bet pre. anyone who gets frisky like that knows that you just go broke so fast haha.

but there are SO MANY of these that happen, and most of the players have sub 5k hands played, so either something is fishy in terms of bot accounts - or - something is fishy in terms of new players binking at a crazy rate. neither would surprise me. i just want to win at something close to expected EV.

and maybe i actually am?? but there's no way to tell!!

256k hands here. Up 25k+ on the site. Played every stake from .05/.10 to 2/4/8 depending on how much money I have available (not a pro anymore and just play for side income). Main stake ive made $ at has been 100NL. Currently playing .10/.20/.40.

Not sure about RNG. I've seen crushers from other sites playing SSNL with 100k hands breakeven. Yes my opponents are absolute droolers that win at a disipropationate rate. Would love to see an all in ev graph if only we could see the hand histories ��

The biggest problem I see now is botting. Not the RNG. If you're a good player, you'll still win even running below EV. But the botting has become really bad. Players with identical stats playing at the same table. The bot operators used to not be greedy. Now, not so much. Especially since Canada entered the market. How many new players with less than 10k hands are playing 32/21 26/17 or 25/15 playing micros. Playing well at the micros. I know the player pool. Seems extremely unlikely. Luckily the fish love to sit me since I make it known that I'm not a bot. So I dodge them and try to avoid them the best I can. But at FR tables that's kind of hard.

Hoping WPT Gold steps it up with the bot prevention. It's obvious to any good player who the bots are. I can avoid them but it's sad to see the fish get eviscerated.

Hope someone can step in! And get the situation under control.

You said the same thing about coinpoker, phenom and ignition just to name a few
It seems like every site is rigged against you
Must be tough

Hypothetically, if a site did add a little variance against regs, it would take a lot to nullify a solid edge, right?

Also that's assuming malice. What if was just poor RNG due to lack regulation and incompetence etc? Who is the regulator and what company backs the RNG? Just curious.

Doesn't seem like this site has much of a security team if any. I wouldn’t hold your breath.

site imo is rigged as f, ive been playing for years and I can spot when I am a sucker. I still win money but going forward after I cashout it won't be the case anymore since I got doomswitch it seems. i have been observing their mini games too and its rigged as shit. leave that site asap if u think u r going to make money from that site. I have no proof but its just my opinion.

Wait.. whut.. which one is it?

It’s both. If you don’t and can’t even play on Clubwptgold why are you hanging out here giving your worthless opinions? Just to troll?

Im not trolling.
Somebody told me he is still winning but one shouldnt expect to be winning...
But I've read enough of your posts to know that you cant see self-contradiction.

This idiot can’t comprehend that players can still turn a profit on a crooked site.

You are the one failing to understand basic logic here

If he is winning, just like so may others, why did he claim "leave that site asap if u think u r going to make money". Its contradictory.

So I asked "which one is it?"... Because they cant exist together (again: if there are enough winners other people thinking to win shouldnt leave the site and vice versa if people shouldnt expect to win on the site there couldnt be so many winners proving the opposite.

Its a mystery how you cant grasp something so easy to understand.

sorry my bad, you can still win money cuz I am a good player win without showdown and just taking uncontested pots but it seems like I get set up so many times its just unreal. it just not worth it to squeak out a measly hourly there. I never question online poker till I play this site(except for ub n ap).
So for me no point in playing on that site anymore and they are operating illegally(grey area at best) so sooner or later they will get ban like FTP once america gets it shit together unless the laws change but we need regulations for all states. I dont trust that site at all. GL if u still play there.

there has been examples of rigged online sites so online poker has been rigged.

Thats a solid response 👍 Learn from this DBF

Please elaborate. Which online poker sites have knowingly rigged their RNG in the past? And please add some evidence if you can.

I've been in online a long time and have seen many cases from superusers to ghosting to RTA to botfarms to colluding, you name it. And all proven. But I've never seen an example of a rigged RNG on a certified pokersite.

im not saying all sites is rigged but I can't say they are clean as well. if a past site can superusers, current site can be rigged even with an RNG certificate non? did UB/AP not have a RNG certificate, that is history so I dont know.

but back to this site, im done with it. this site just too rigged for my liking.

Yea but you said "there has been examples of rigged online sites so online poker has been rigged."

Please name them and show the proof that led you to that statement as im interested. And remember, superusing is completely different than rigging an RNG.

"hey I saw you steal something, that must mean you murder too. You are going away for life" logic

cheating is cheating non? breaking the law is breaking the law non(don't get me wrong not all crimes are the same)?
when did I say anything about RNG I just said they are rigged btw
does this site even have a RNG certificate?
But anyways im done, ill let you guys keep debating/arguing.

You need to read up on what rigged means.

"In online poker, "rigged" means a player believes the platform or software is cheating, usually by manipulating the dealing algorithms to create bad beats, favor certain players, or maximize the site's rake (fees)."

Cheating is cheating you are correct, but rigging is something very specific
If a game is full of colluders or RTA'ers you are certainly being cheated.. by players!
Rigged means you are being cheated by the platform's algorithm i.e. the RNG
In poker there are cheaters galore... riggedness remains a fairy tale.

yea past site has super user so that is rigged...by the platform...
does having RNG certificate means it can't be rigged U be naive to think just cause a certificate means it can't be rigged though but I can't prove anything so its w/e.
Let u guys keep debating though 😀
have a nice day

this is what AI says so take it fwiw

Yes, an online poker site with a Random Number Generator (RNG) certificate can still be rigged or compromised.While a legitimate RNG certificate means the algorithm itself generates truly unpredictable sequences of numbers, it is not a foolproof guarantee of a fair game. An RNG certificate is just one lock on the door; it does not protect against a broken window or a dishonest homeowner.Understanding how a certified site can still be unsafe requires looking at the technical loopholes, systemic flaws, and alternative methods of cheating.

1. Code Manipulation and Server BypassAn RNG certificate proves that a specific piece of software generates random numbers under testing conditions. However, the auditing agency (like iTech Labs or GLI) does not have a real-time, backdoor monitor on live production servers at all times.The "Switch" Loophole: A rogue operator could submit a perfectly fair RNG script to pass certification, but run a slightly altered, rigged script on their live, public tables.Conditional Logic: The RNG might be completely random 99% of the time, but feature hardcoded overrides. For example, the software could be written to trigger a specific card sequence if a designated account (a "superuser") is active in the hand.

2. The Certificate Itself Can Be FakeUnregulated, "grey-market, " or offshore poker platforms often use deceptive trust tactics.Fabricated Badges: A site can easily Photoshop an "RNG Certified" badge onto their homepage footer without actually undergoing an independent audit.Expired Audits: Sites frequently display outdated certificates from years prior without paying for ongoing, routine recertification.Corrupt Auditing: In completely unregulated jurisdictions, certificates can occasionally be purchased from disreputable, rubber-stamp testing firms.

3. "Rigged" Environments (Cheating Without Touching the Cards)A poker site's card dealing can be 100% random, yet the game can still be completely rigged against you due to security failures. When major modern scandals break, they almost never involve rigged card dealing; instead, they involve environment manipulation:Superuser Exploits: Infamous historical scandals (and modern security breaches) occur when a software vulnerability or a rogue insider allows certain accounts to see opponents' hole cards in real time. The deck remains random, but the cheater has perfect information.House Bots and Collusion: The RNG deals fair cards, but the platform turns a blind eye to coordinated networks of automated bots or colluding players who share card data to drain organic players.How to Protect YourselfTo minimize your risk, always cross-reference a site's claims with heavy community scrutiny:Check the Source: Do not trust a graphic badge. Click the RNG badge; it should link directly to a verified, live verification URL hosted on the third-party auditor's official domain (e.g., itechlabs.com or gaminglabs.com).Stick to Tier-1 Regulated Sites: Play on platforms heavily regulated by strict government entities (such as state gaming commissions or strict European authorities) rather than unregulated offshore setups. Heavily regulated sites face catastrophic legal and financial ruin if they tamper with software.Look for Provably Fair Tech: Some modern crypto-focused poker platforms utilize Provably Fair algorithms. This cryptographic method allows players to seed the shuffle themselves and personally verify that the deck was untampered with after the hand concludes.If you are evaluating a specific poker platform, feel free to share the name of the site or where it is licensed, and I can help you look into its regulatory track record.