Call the 3-bet or 4-bet with QQ? 2/5 NL
The game is 2/5 NL, full-ring (9-handed).
First villain (V1) is mostly unknown to me. He seems to be tilting pretty badly by being a LAGtard pre-flop, but less insane post-flop. In an emotionally stable state, I think V1 is a small long-term winner.
Other villain (V2) is a good and observent reg. He 3-bets a lot when he suspects others are opening too widely, as V1 was doing while tilting. Has the guts to call down with A-high vs suspected big bluffs.
My image was very tight and timid, but, really, my hole cards had been pretty bad and boards had wrecked my few decent hands, e.g. KsQs8s flop when I 3-bet with 9h9d and get 4 callers. It had been like this for at least 2 hours.
Both Villains are good enough to notice... and V2's a good enough reg that any change to my image over the long-run does actually matter.
Other players are not relevant to the hand, other than their deep stacks encouraging bigger open raise sizes.
I'm the effective stack against key villains at ~$1000.
Pre-Flop ($7)
V1 is UTG and opens to $35. (A common open size at this table due to deep stacks.)
V2 in UTG+1 3b! to $125.
MP folds.
Hero in LJ looks down at Q♥Q♠ and... ?
I'll put my thinking in a spoiler. Consider replying first before replying. :-)
Spoiler
Tilty V1's range is so wide that QQ should raise against him for value 100% of the time.
I think but don't really know that V2's range would raise for value and isolation with quite a few hands.
On the other hand, their positions are very early, so I can perhaps weight the top of their range a little more heavily.
Option 1: Flat. V2 and maybe V1 will know my range is 99-QQ, AKo, AQs. This turns my hand face up. But it might keep in a lot of crappy hands in that I crush... and I am IP.
Option 2: 4-bet to, say, $325. I do need to protect against both an A and a K coming on the board. I need value from most pairs, AK and AQ. But can I actually get action of any type from anything other than AA or KK? What would you do against a V1 or V2 shove?
Option 3: Jam. Can I get called by anything other than AA or KK?
Obviously, I can't fold. But given my image, any involvement in this pot will scream "PREMIUM HAND" to both V1 and definitely V2. Given that, I'm not sure which option is best. I lean towards Option 2 with a bet-fold plan.
What do you think?
Just read the rest of the thread...
OP, you should read up on 4B sizing, IP vs OOP. We're IP here, so our 4B can be as small as 2.2x ($275). OOP, we'd want to go a tad larger, but that's like $300, max.
The problem is that once we've put 30%-1/3 of our stack in, any decent opponent will assume we're calling off the rest, as we should. So if we 4B to over $300, there's no perception that we MIGHT fold if they 5B-jam on us, and they might not think we can fold if we bet $300.
They know we can't fold, so they can just 5B with better, and call or fold with worse. They never have to consider 5B-jamming with worse as a bluff, or calling and having to fold the flop a large majority of the time.
If we were OOP, this would be a little trickier to navigate, and the decision to 4B to $300 or jam all in would be closer. If the stack depths were a little shorter, it would just be jam or fold, never a 4B for less than all in.
If one or both call, that's fine. We'll be IP, with the betting lead, in a 4B pot. We can literally c-bet small no matter what the board texture is, even if it's ace or king-high, and expect to take down the pot a high percentage of the time. We're mostly hoping to avoid super-connected flops with cards just lower than ours - boards with J's and T's.
If we're confident in our reads, they should both be over-folding, so there's no reason to worry about them coming over the top. If we get 5B, it'll be a jam, and if we only 4B to $275, it's a pretty trivial fold. It's only a big problem if we 4B to more than $300, so don't do that.
I prefer call > jam > 4bet-fold.
While V2 is targeting V1's weak range, he likely isn't going too out of line given he's UTG+1. Likely range JJ+, AQo+, AJs+. So we don't accomplish much by 4betting as he's only going to fold worse hands and maybe jam AK which sucks for us.
Calling is nice because we're playing in position, potentially threeways as we're giving V1 an attractive price to overcall with his trash e.g. KJs, ATs. If there's an Ace or King on the flop, it's very likely that one of the villains has hit top pair, so it's an easy fold for us. If the flop is Q high, obviously we're stacking AA/KK/AQ/KQ. If the flop is J or T high, we're likely stacking AJ/AT from either opponent. If it's a low flop, we can call any reasonable size c-bet, V may potentially be bluffing with AK/AQ or even valuebetting with JJ.
Jamming is also decent because we deny equity from any Ax/Kx from either villain.
4-betting is the worst option IMO, given our nit image, V2 might even fold something as strong as JJ which is a disaster for us.
Sizing-wise, I think $325 is ok.
I disagree with this though. If villain thinks we're always calling, they're always jamming AA/KK which gives us an easy fold. And if they do call, they have much less slowplayed AA/KK in their range which makes postflop play trivial for us.
