Bellagio 2/5 Hand
Playing 2/5 at the Bellagio
Effective stacks of $700. Game is capped at $500 but V & H have been playing for a bit at this table
I consider V to be a generally OK player. Bellagio regular with lots of hours of play in the room and at these stakes.
H generally has a tight profile - I don't play a lot of hands.
PF
V is UTG and opens for $15
Folds to H in CO with QsTs, calls $15
Remaining fold
F - $37
KJ8 rainbow
V checks
H bets $15
V insta-calls
T - $67
KJ8A rainbow
V checks
H bets $50
V insta-calls
R - $167
KJ8AA
V checks
What are you doing here?
I know there might be problems with other parts of the hand, but I'm most concerned about my river play. My main thought was that V opened UTG PF, OK player, so I know he's not just goofing around.
What are you doing after a V check?
If we're always c-betting from OOP with thin value, we're probably c-betting too much, and making it easy for our opponents to beat us.
As the PPR in a HU pot, we should have a 2:1 ratio of bluffs to value on flop bets, so we really should be betting all our value unless we are trapping or have other reasons to play passively against a particular opponent.
As the PPR in a HU pot, we should have a 2:1 ratio of bluffs to value on flop bets, so we really should be betting all our value unless we are trapping or have other reasons to play passively against a particular opponent.
Why should we have a 2:1 ratio of bluffs to value? Why can't we put some of our value into a check-raise line? Does the board texture matter? (Of course it does.) Does the effective stack size change our strat for c-betting? (Yes, it does.) Do we vary our strat based on the opponent? (Yes, we do.)
I'm not saying we never c-bet from OOP. I'm just saying that there are situations where we can c-bet more, and a lot of situations where we can c-bet less. If we check-call flop, there's no rule against donking turn if the situation calls for it.
Why should we have a 2:1 ratio of bluffs to value? Why can't we put some of our value into a check-raise line? Does the board texture matter? (Of course it does.) Does the effective stack size change our strat for c-betting? (Yes, it does.) Do we vary our strat based on the opponent? (Yes, we do.)
Of course, the various factors you mention all matter. However, I know that the math demonstrates that with a well-constructed range we can have up to a 2:1 ratio of bluffs-to-value on the flop, a 1:1 ratio on the turn, and a 1:2 ratio on the river. This is directly from Janda (and others), but unfortunately, I don't understand the math well enough to explain it.
If we move away from GTO and math, it seems logical we should be even more willing to bet (and bluff) when we know our opponents are calling too wide preflop--which means they have a lot of crap they're going to need to unload. Obviously, table reads take precedence over population reads.
Of course, the various factors you mention all matter. However, I know that the math demonstrates that with a well-constructed range we can have up to a 2:1 ratio of bluffs-to-value on the flop, a 1:1 ratio on the turn, and a 1:2 ratio on the river. This is directly from Janda (and others), but unfortunately, I don't understand the math well enough to explain it.
If we move away from GTO and math, it seems logical we should be even more willing to bet (and bluff) when we know our opponents ar
Agreed they'll have more trash on the flop, because they call too wide pre. All the more reason to check, so they can stab with that trash, rather than bet, which just lets them off the hook for calling too wide.
i feel like i always come off the villain in these convos but you guys just kind of make things up and call it theory
