Seems like movement away from NLHE

Why would anyplace want to cap the number of PLO games?

Most of us will never see the real life effects of NL's decline in interest unless you live in a place where poker is popular like Texas. And even then, is it a decline in NL popularity, or are these games finally just getting the recognition they deserve?

Not always a hard cap but if they have an empty table and dealer they'd often prefer to call a 1/2 nl game bc it will likely last longer.

this

When PokerStars took Ontario players out of ROW action, there were, at first, some great PLO tables. But these days it's only NLHE.

I only play mid, but my sense is that there's a difference in recs. Like, people who play poker a few times a year or once or twice a month play small to mid hold em.

Probably not many people are gonna just play 50/100 on vacation while the wife shops even if they are pretty rich.

At higher stakes, a lot of the issues mentioned are more prevalent, like all the pros using robotic strat and rarely making large mistakes.

Also, those recs might be more serious about poker. They understand that hold em is solved. They play often and do not want to get crushed every night. They have the time and motivation to learn more complex games. Variance is good for them and they know it. They can use their bankroll advantage against grinders. They also might just be bored with hold em after many years of playing.

Movement from PLO to PLO5 is real imo.

I remember specifically the underground games that became "poker rooms" in TX that would spread PLO at max once a week, almost all proprietors were concerned that even 1-2-5 PLO daily would demolish their day to day players and potentially dry up the "rake" because the games would play bigger and faster than NLHE. They preferred to shear the sheep instead of have lambchops. I imagine, outside of WSOP the Vegas rooms either feel this way, or know that the games would break too fast. Aria has essentially cornered the market during and outside of Wsop.

Poker room operators used to think the same thing about NLHE.

i think the same fate as nl will befall plo (anything hs moves to private, public games get swarmed by good / primarily euro regs that beat bad regs and small losing recs out of the game) very quickly if this series is anything to go by. ppl saying plo games are consistently filled with drinking and laughter are delusional or don't play above 1/3. this is re the series, dont care what your random market does. i don't think there's really a magical bullet to save poker, anyone that's managed to be competitive in any game in the current era has a process that will allow them to learn other games very quickly and efficiently (compared to recs). given that public solutions for plo exist, it's going to end up being more or less the same thing as nl. at least mix or some of the random games that get made up (double board bomb pots, stand up game) make people either work to find answers or have to use actual logic / thinking. but i think the plo boom will be short lived

Nothing like a post about PLO from ChicagOGJoey.

👍

No they preferred they shear the sheep rather than the winning players having lambchops.

Not caring is why your wrong.
Pre 2023 wsop I said I think for cash games wsop is the worst time in Vegas to play plo unless you're playing super high stakes.

For years I've thought the games overall were better in Vegas outside of the wsop and in other places in the country.

But I've spent many nights in a poker room on the last plo game running with people laughing drinking joking around etc and the remaining 10 or so nl tables don't have a peep coming out of them.

Were they really wrong?

The poker boom was an incredible phenomenon no one could have predicted and 100xing the customer base made NL sustainable for a long time.

But in limit, the recs often win and stay in action. People used to play like total monkeys in limit and stay in action. I once won $1100 in a 4/8 game.

Pros win rates were lower. They get max rake on pretty much every hand.

The toothpaste is out of the tube now. But that happens. I'm sure in a dream world restaurants would go back to charging for refills. I kinda think it's similar with LHE.

What kept boom-era NLHE from being a total disaster for the poker ecosystem was buy-in caps, imposed by both room operators and online sites.

I remember, having gotten my NL cash feet wet before the boom in some Bay Area uncapped games -- or pretty much the one game that moved from one cardroom to another, finally landing at Lucky Chances when they opened -- once demand picked up and cardrooms started offering NLHE, feeling frustrated by 1-2 with a $100 buy-in cap: how could a player do anything with just 50 big blinds, the implied odds weren't there to set-mine, let alone play suited connectors.

Eventually 100bb came to be the standard, and the game became really playable.

Omaha, PLO in particular, has been the next big thing in poker as long as I can recall. I do admit that PLO is currently as popular as it ever has been. But it is still way behind NLHE in most places. But that presumes you consider 5 and even 6 card variants the same game.

Fact is few non winners can afford the PLO Stakes and even many winners can’t afford the swings.

PLO needs amabsssadors/influencers, big events for tournaments and cash games with years of marketing/promotion to ever get to a point where it's like NL.

The PLO game week last year w/ HCL crushed it and I heard a lot of good things from PLO players who watched it - one of the few showcases for the great game in 2023 that I was apart of.

PLO is treated like an illegitmate step child by most poker operators but if you treat it like your first born child you love, I think it has a lot of potential. You really need the right person putting on the game because most people have no clue about how PLO works or what makes it special compared to NL! The people running shows and events are 2 card people.

I remember when NL on party poker had 50 bb caps.

The big problem with PLO being the "game of the future" is that it will simply never be inviting to new players. It really only appeals to experienced players who are bored of NLHE. But it will never be spread in a casino at a stake that is comfortable to players just dipping their toes into the water of casino poker. And even if it were spread at lower stakes, it would still be uncomfortable to new players because the swings are so wild, immediate, and unavoidable.

Ultimately, poker is not going to grow if it just retains its existing player base without bringing in new blood. And PLO isn't ever going to be a way to do this.

+++++++^

Even 1/2 5 bring in, winds up so deep that few can afford to learn the game before their bankroll is destroyed. Yes there are some whales that can which is exactly what you see here. There are a couple of whales and when they show up the PLO goes and all the regs and self thought pros pile into the game. But they don't come often enough to support and plo environment.

I live in Vegas and don't play poker during WSOP for this exact same reason.

Not worth the wait, 1/3 is good all year long lol.

In the east, there is a lot of straight 1/2 and 2/2 PLO. Often 9 times of 5/5 PLO at Aria during the Series. It seems to be increasing a lot, although NLHE is still dominant.

There's a limit omaha high game in Vegas that's always busy. I don't think it'll spread much, as it's been there forever and this hasn't happened.

It's too bad because it is a great game for recs. They play tons of hands. There are probably more family pots than heads up. Half the table gets a piece and they can all chase. There are huge pots. Bad players have big days all the time. It's super fun. +/- $500 is a good/bad day at 4/8 limit but not that unusual.

Why it's a big success at one casino but nowhere else, I'm not sure. I've always felt it would be a great game in LA, if you could get a pool of players going to get it off the ground.

PLO8 is such a better game than PLO and it has a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting popular because casinos hate split pot games and not enough people want to learn them.

PLO8 is so unique amongst the variants though. It's all about postflop play, it's more action than the high variant, it takes a boring game when played limit and makes it super exciting, I love it.

split pot games suck live.