GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

This is the support thread for CardRunnersEV, which is hand EV analysis software.

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16 March 2008 at 05:11 PM
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There are times that I wish to simplify a branch in CREV, after running the Equilibrium tool. This has the advantage of speed as well as having all of the EV runs going thru the branch, instead of 44% as in the Button Call example. I am hoping you have a better way to do this. I have been copying the Weighted Range and pasting it into the Preflop range.



by BJohnson56 k

There are times that I wish to simplify a branch in CREV, after running the Equilibrium tool. This has the advantage of speed as well as having all of the EV runs going thru the branch, instead of 44% as in the Button Call example. I am hoping you have a better way to do this. I have been copying the Weighted Range and pasting it into the Preflop range.

Trimming the branch, and copying the weighted range into the preflop range is probably the only way to accomplish this.
At least, I don't immediately see any other approach.

For GTO+, you could export the range to FlopzillaPro, rebuild the tree with the intended line, and then import the ranges from FlopzillaPro again.
Or export the range from GTO+ in text form (which can be done with a button below the table).
So, in GTO+ this would be a bit more straigthforward.


by scylla k

Once changes have been made, the solver needs to again figure out the optimal play with the given restrictions.
There's unfortunately no shortcuts for this.

I see. Thanks.

Also, wanted to ask, how would you compare the nodelock results of GTO+ to those of GTOW elite? Are the results of their AI prone to errors and wrong assumptions?

Last thing, once I ran a solve and edited the tree manually in the "edit tree", can I save the edited tree to use in future solves?


by crowned k

I see. Thanks.
Also, wanted to ask, how would you compare the nodelock results of GTO+ to those of GTOW elite? Are the results of their AI prone to errors and wrong assumptions?
Last thing, once I ran a solve and edited the tree manually in the "edit tree", can I save the edited tree to use in future solves?

Unless they actually measure the Nash distance (or, dEV, as well call it in GTO+) for the entire tree (including full turn and river play), I don't see any way of knowing for certain whether the AI solution is actually correct. However, this is of course a question that's best directed at their support. I can only speak for our own product, and not products created by third parties. As for your second question, you can create a savefile with "File->Save as ...". If you ever want to use the tree again for different ranges/board/rake/etc, then just load the savefile, set the desired board/ranges/etc, go to "Build tree", select the tab "Rebuild" and click on "Rebuild with current settings".



In the pool I'm dealing with spr on, it takes a staggering 250GB, which is way too big for a home computer. I tried renting a server-grade CPU, but it was computationally inefficient. Can server CPUs with lower multi-core frequencies be optimized?


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by Yangkk k

In the pool I'm dealing with spr on, it takes a staggering 250GB, which is way too big for a home computer. I tried renting a server-grade CPU, but it was computationally inefficient. Can server CPUs with lower multi-core frequencies be optimized?


by Yangkk k

In the pool I'm dealing with spr on, it takes a staggering 250GB, which is way too big for a home computer. I tried renting a server-grade CPU, but it was computationally inefficient. Can server CPUs with lower multi-core frequencies be optimized?

Servers with a high number of low frequency CPU's are typically not designed for high-performance computing.
So I don't think that this would be an achievable route.
If your tree is as large as 250GB, then you may want to consider building smaller trees.
From a human perspective, I don't think there's much to be learned from a 250GB tree, that can't also be learned from a tree where some simplifications have been applied.


scy, can you consider saving the last filter used before closing the program for future updates? (pure or classic), currently whenever we open the program by default it appears in Classic view.

Thanks!


by Mates. k

scy, can you consider saving the last filter used before closing the program for future updates? (pure or classic), currently whenever we open the program by default it appears in Classic view.
Thanks!

I think that we'll offer an option to store the settings.


scy how are you?
About incentive feature:


If we apply incentives on the turn, and then incentives on the river (I tried only with negatives), the solution does not change.
(I have resolved the river again)

When I export the river to an individual sim and run the sim, it works there.
Can you take a look at it?

Here the good solution



by Mates. k

scy how are you?
About incentive feature:

If we apply incentives on the turn, and then incentives on the river (I tried only with negatives), the solution does not change.
(I have resolved the river again)

When I export the river to an individual sim and run the sim, it works there.
Can you take a look at it?

Here the good solution

Yes, we will post a fix for this, and some other issues, later today.


Hi Scylla,

What does rounding actually do?


Hi Scylla

I load subset 163
Export database
Process files
And then Merge files

Now on Database distributions i can see the 163 items in table but i cannot select action for the OOP and then for the IP
So i can insert the data in excel only for the action of the OOP



by Lorryb k

Hi Scylla,
What does rounding actually do?

Rounding rounds the solution to 1,2,3,4,..,etc
For example, if you select "Round for 2" and round the solution below, then all hands will be rounded to 0%,50% or 100%.



by NoStress k

Hi Scylla

I load subset 163
Export database
Process files
And then Merge files

Now on Database distributions i can see the 163 items in table but i cannot select action for the OOP and then for the IP
So i can insert the data in excel only for the action of the OOP

Can you upgrade to v166?
If you then mouse over the area that you indicated with your screenshot, a message will be shown that explains why the aggregate data is not available.

If you need help interpreting the message, then please let us know what the message says (you can either post here, or contact us via our contact form).

Should the above not work for you, then please:
1) Select two trees for which the aggregate data is not displayed when they are merged
2) Store them with "File->Save: Convert to Basic storage" (this will bring down their size, so that they can be sent by mail more easily)
3) Send these files to support


The aggregate data was not available because was missing critical data from a tree
I run that tree and now works

Thank you!


scy how is it going?
Questions about rounding:

* Can rounding be used in DB mode? that is, apply it to all the flops in the subset.

* If i want OOP/IP to play with a rounding effect on all streets and for IP/OOP to remain GTO, (used to compare vs another database if this simplified strategy loses a considerable ev or not compared to a normal solution, its possible?


by Mates. k

scy how is it going?
Questions about rounding:
* Can rounding be used in DB mode? that is, apply it to all the flops in the subset.
* If i want OOP/IP to play with a rounding effect on all streets and for IP/OOP to remain GTO, (used to compare vs another database if this simplified strategy loses a considerable ev or not compared to a normal solution, its possible?

Rounding is a feature in the new "Special options" menu in the editor. It applies rounding to decisions in trees. We can consider applying it to databases, however, we do need to weigh the benefit of a potential new feature versus how much more difficult it will make the interface to work with for new users.



I love the update! Using the software is a real pleasure 😃 Many thanks to you!
Just a small thing: I would find it nice to see the potsize (and maybe board) in turn/river reports.


by forevernewbie k

I love the update! Using the software is a real pleasure 😃 Many thanks to you!
Just a small thing: I would find it nice to see the potsize (and maybe board) in turn/river reports.

Ok, I'll see if we can find a spot where we can display this.


by scylla k

Rounding rounds the solution to 1,2,3,4,..,etc
For example, if you select "Round for 2" and round the solution below, then all hands will be rounded to 0%,50% or 100%.

I see, thank you!


hi!

Is there any easy way to just change 1 node in the solution and leave the rest of his play as it is?

For example, I want OOP to never donk on flops. But if I change that he can't donk flop he would adjust on later street (donking a lot on lots of turns and river since he cant on flop, xraising more, which is not to be expected too much with human players)


by BoomKOd k

hi!

Is there any easy way to just change 1 node in the solution and leave the rest of his play as it is?

For example, I want OOP to never donk on flops. But if I change that he can't donk flop he would adjust on later street (donking a lot on lots of turns and river since he cant on flop, xraising more, which is not to be expected too much with human players)

It depends on the exact definition of what you're looking for.
Namely, if OOP doesn't react to the changes, does IP also not react?

If both OOP and IP maintain their strategy, then you could run a regular solve, and then change OOP's strategy to 0% donk.
The EV data would no longer be available after editing, but other than that, you'd have the entire solution with OOP never donking, and IP and OOP maintaining their previous strategy.
So, if this is what you're looking for, then you can just run a regular solve, and then edit OOP's first decision.

However, if you do want IP to react to the changes, then logically OOP would need to counter-react; otherwise IP would just be performing a max-exploit operation.
And, given that GTO solving is based on both players knowing each other's ranges, it's not possible to run a GTO solution where OOP believes they have a certain range, whereas IP believes OOP has a different range.


by BoomKOd k

hi!

Is there any easy way to just change 1 node in the solution and leave the rest of his play as it is?

For example, I want OOP to never donk on flops. But if I change that he can't donk flop he would adjust on later street (donking a lot on lots of turns and river since he cant on flop, xraising more, which is not to be expected too much with human players)

by scylla k

It depends on the exact definition of what you're looking for.
Namely, if OOP doesn't react to the changes, does IP also not react?

If both OOP and IP maintain their strategy, then you could run a regular solve, and then change OOP's strategy to 0% donk.
The EV data would no longer be available after editing, but other than that, you'd have the entire solution with OOP never donking, and IP and OOP maintaining their previous strategy.
So, if this is what you're looking for, then you can just run a r

If we were to put locks on every nodes of the tree (and in this instance, edit OOP's strategy so that it never donks), and re-solve, would that be equivalent to what you call a 'max exploit'?

The way I understand it, OP is asking if there is a way to edit one node of the tree, while keeping the rest of the tree as is.


by SrMcBet k

If we were to put locks on every nodes of the tree (and in this instance, edit OOP's strategy so that it never donks), and re-solve, would that be equivalent to what you call a 'max exploit'?

Max exploit would be if you put locks on every node of the tree for OOP, but leave the nodes for IP unlocked.

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