Donald J. Trump (For everyone else except Victor)
I assume it's still acceptable to have a Trump thread in a Politics forum?
So this is an obvious lie - basically aimed at
I'm going to go more old-school. I was listening to something about Caligula last night and heard a lot of similarities, so had Gpt do me the honours.
(My own addition would be they both had no experience, and were grossly unqualified. Caligula distained the Senate and the political elites, but realised he didn't need them if he just bribed the Praetorian Guard to be loyal to him, and threaten/kill anyone opposing him.)
Of three differences it came up with, I think the bottom two are pretty amusi
just an fyi - we really don't have any reliable information on him
if you made a list of all the bad emperors of rome and all the good ones - you'll find one thing they all have in common
eventually succeeded by an ally or neutral party (ie he was overthrown but then the guy who killed him was then killed and replaced by another shortly thereafter) - good emperor
succeeded by an enemy who overthrew them - bad and depraved emperor
there's even a good case to make that infamously bad emperors such as caricalla or commodus of joaquin phoenix galdiator fame were actually pretty good at being emperor given how long they lasted in a position where the average reign was less than a decade (there was a year of 4 emperors and one with 5) - so anyone who could survive as long as guys like caligula did even sun ran for a while or were actually not as terrible at the job as later historians working under their successor regimes portrayed them
very little about caligula is confirmed, it's all hearsay and written long after he died
there was massive incentive by those who replaced the julio-claudians to disparage them as inept and incompetent and even insane - some had accomplished far too much to attack so they went after the low hanging fruit like nero and caligula
ie there was no evidence nero played music while watching rome burn - he was in fact 35 miles away at antium when it happened
so any talks of caligula are probably gross exaggerations that are based on something real but very far from the reality
look no further than hunter biden - depending on the political slant he's either the worst person in the history of the planet or just somebody who was wrongly targeted and at the wrong place at the wrong time - so imagine if one zealous side or the other got to pen the definitive history on him 50 years from now and that's the only information people 2,000 years later would have on the man and you begin to understand the problems with taking anything about caligula too seriously
The homeless claim is utterly insane. Can you produce any source that even vaguely gets close to that? do you realize that even 10% would be a grotesque exageration? do you realize that half of the population was rural in 1933 and in rural being homeless doesn't exist because a random shack in the middle of nothing is something anyone can build for himself? and that elders were more rural than younger people?
so do you realize your estimate basically means close to 100% of the over 65 living in u
It's insane because it doesn't fit the narrative in your alternate reality?
The heritage foundation, a conservative think tank as you know, says roughly 59% of Americans lived in poverty before the advent of social security. Roughly 50% of the elderly. I've read everywhere from 30-50% of Americans were homeless. I'm not going to do your work for you... the info is out there.
BEFORE the great depression, since someone brought this up, roughly 30% of the elderly were in poverty (again, today it's ~11%).
This is a consistent denial about the reason for agencies and certain government programs to exist. They were created to solve a problem. You can have fair-minded discussions about modifications or changes to these programs, but acting like they don't serve a purpose, or are just stealing taxpayers money is nonsense. You live in a world where some people can't save.. if they don't save, and are scraping by, you're likely going to meet them on your front porch when they get old. It sucks if you're not one of those people who can't save... I get it. I'm not one of them either.
It's the same thing with USAID... right-wing media is pumping you guys full of nonsense about government agencies because the people destroying them are insulated from the results. Boggles my mind that you don't get this.
I've read so many reports that if USAID is dismantled, it would essentially mean we'd need to double or triple our military budget to maintain the same domestic safety. By all accounts, USAID is achieving more domestic safety at a fraction of the cost.
I just don't get what you guys aren't understanding... if you burn it all down, what do you think happens next? Utopia? The guys drunk on money and power and these tech bros are going to guide YOU into prosperity?
I just don't get what you guys aren't understanding... if you burn it all down, what do you think happens next? Utopia? The guys drunk on money and power and these tech bros are going to guide YOU into property?
Yeah, what do these people think is the endgame once all the social services, guard rails, safety nets, and oversight are gutted? Utopia? We are just going to rain excess cash on white males?
Whats the ****ing point of reducing government spending if everyone lives are worse for it?
And now they’re coming for the department of education
The usual suspects will insist this is great News because DEI or Marxism or indoctrination or some ****
It's insane because it doesn't fit the narrative in your alternate reality?
The heritage foundation, a conservative think tank as you know, says roughly 59% of Americans lived in poverty before the advent of social security. Roughly 50% of the elderly. I
man, again, your sources don't even vaguely say what you are claiming. 50% poverty, especially when defined in the modern way? sure. If today it's 11 (which requires an absurd definition in the historical sense), then surely 50% might have been in the Great Depression.
But what has that to do with 40% homelessness lol.
I highlighted the bold again. You might think you have read it. You might have read it in some insane source. It's nowhere to be found though.
SS was created to give free stuff to people so they vote for you (the first beneficiaries got free stuff). That's how all public pension systems started in every country that has them. Simple as that. First to do that was Metternick iirc. FDR didn't invent anything. You give free stuff to the poor masses, paid by your political enemies, you gain votes without losing any. Standard leftism, always has been.
USAID is going into the state department. The actually military relevant stuff (like helping egypt so they assassinate radical islamists) stays. The transgender operas in Sudan leave. Simple as that.
If we burn most of the state down we still have more than enough state. What happens is the left loses a permanent power bases, making leftist political victories harder in the future (and that would already be a blessing for society definitionally).
It means ambitious capable people have more in life, more success, more rewards, more prestige, more status.
LOL, that reminds me of a woman I worked with many years ago. She had just gotten back from the dentist and strangely it was her first time ever. Not sure how that happened.
Anyways, we are all sitting there typing away in our cubicles and out of the blue she exclaims. "You know, I never had a cavity until I went to the dentist."
Yep, trump was right about Covid. If we just stopped testing we wouldn’t have had any positive cases.
man, again, your sources don't even vaguely say what you are claiming. 50% poverty, especially when defined in the modern way? sure. If today it's 11 (which requires an absurd definition in the historical sense), then surely 50% might have been in the Great Depression.
But what has that to do with 40% homelessness lol.
I highlighted the bold again. You might think you have read it. You might have read it in some insane source. It's nowhere to be found though.
SS was created to give free stuff to pe
From source:
Two centuries ago, most Americans—at least 90 percent—were desperately poor by today’s standards. Most houses were small, ill-constructed, and poorly heated and insulated. Based on federal family income estimates, 59 percent of Americans lived in poverty as late as 1929, before the Great Depression.[28] In 1947, the government reported that 32 percent of Americans were poor.[29] By 1969, that figure had declined to 12 percent, where it remained for 10 years.[30] Since then, the percentage of poor Americans has fluctuated but has remained near the same level. As of 2013, the poverty rate was 14.5 percent.
I have a memory like an elephant, I've actually read, in history books, that roughly 50% of elderly were homeless before the advent of SS. You can deduce, fairly easily, that if 59% of Americans lived in poverty, somewhere close to the numbers I said were homeless in their later years.
Another source:
Website Gobankingrates.com compiled a list of 16 things that served as a safety net for seniors before Social Security, though “safety net” doesn’t really apply to many of the options, which include panhandling, moving into almshouses or poorhouses, or simply dying impoverished, which was the fate that befell 1 in every 2 older Americans in the years after the 1929 stock market crash.
The exact number is debatable, and it's really not the point. As I said, you can do your own research. The actual point is that social security helped solve a problem. If you lived in a society where people would save and invest, the stock market could be the better option, since the returns on average are roughly double what SS can produce.
The tension point in this issue is that individuals that can handle their finances, don't want to be burdened by those that can't. It's the classical collective vs individual problem that separates conservatism from liberalism.
The problem... and honestly the reason I don't want to have any further conversation with you, is because you're an extremist that doesn't think about any of the nuances in problems. You're only hyper focused on yourself, as if you lived in a vacuum. You're following other people's propaganda, that DO essentially live in a vacuum, because they will not be impacted by the consequences of what they're attempting to do.
In other words... you think you're a billionaire, when really you're a slave. And you want to blame Marxist, communist, Maoist, or whatever other BS they tell you that liberals are, because it's easier to do that than actually get into the nuances of the problem.
For example... I'm a capitalist. I own two businesses. I have no problem with people making money, and I don't want to support people who don't want to buy-in and contribute to their community / society. However, I also realize the reality of not having proper social safety nets, and collectively using our buying power to lower costs on many goods and services that are essential. So, your extreme response would be.. then have no safety nets... that will motivate people to contribute. Let's have a wild west... but it just doesn't work out that way, at least historically.
Ayn Rand, the previous God of the conservative movement, vowed against any form of collectivism.... until she got cancer and needed help. They're all individualist ideologues until they need someone's help. Selfish hypocrites to the core.
Their new God, Curtis Yarvin will end the same way.
Everyone should read Down and Out in Paris and London.
Thanks for the convo again guys. I have other work to do. 😀
Everyone has the ability to be a good person... but you need good information and honest self evaluation.
just playing devils advocate - but you're associating the time of free and widespread immigration as a horrendous period rife with homelessness and poverty
obviously it's unfair to link those two, and i am not doing that, just pointing out what kind of silly narratives you can paint when you brush with such broad strokes
i'm a huge proponent for social security as well and agree we'd be far worse without it - i just think the way you're framing the argument by citing what america was like before the automobile and electricity is just absurd
Rick - I'm sure you know or have looked it up, but George Orwell book.
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yep
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...
Federal health workers are expressing fear and alarm after a website called “DEI Watch List” published the photos, names and public information of a number of workers across health agencies, describing them at one point as “targets.”
Their coming after black people. It should be blatantly obvious by now.
yep
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...
Their coming after black people. It should be blatantly obvious by now.
For the non-white people in the US do you think it's time to bail or will the long reach of the US government find us anywhere?
yep
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...
Their coming after black people. It should be blatantly obvious by now.
That didn't take long.
RIP land of the free
They're even llsting political donations from what this says for their 'targets'. That's some deep stuff Elon's boys are sharing out.
Trumpers you ok with Elon and his crew sharing private information like this for a site listing individuals as 'targets'?
Please come and tell me there's no proof Elon and his boys are the source for this info, and it's a deep state conspiracy or some such BS .
yep
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-ne...
Their coming after black people. It should be blatantly obvious by now.
This is absolutely shocking. For decades there have been zero signs of racism in the US and now there is a website that clearly shows there is still one or more racist people among us. Nothing has changed between now and then except we have a new president - we should try to impeach him because some moron created a website.
I'm ready to leave the US not because of Elon but because I want to be able to afford eggs again.
This is absolutely shocking. For decades there have been zero signs of racism in the US and now there is a website that clearly shows there is still one or more racist people among us. Nothing has changed between now and then except we have a new president - we should try to impeach him because some moron created a website.
Why are you even trying to distance yourself and trump from this? It's ok to come out now.
For the non-white people in the US do you think it's time to bail or will the long reach of the US government find us anywhere?
The amusing part of this is there is literally a US Congresswoman who is going after grunts working in the DOGE department on Twitter after a hit piece doxing them was written by Wired magazine; and all the people outraged at the "DEI dossier" have no problem with this.
And many of them aren't even white.
This is absolutely shocking. For decades there have been zero signs of racism in the US and now there is a website that clearly shows there is still one or more racist people among us. Nothing has changed between now and then except we have a new president - we should try to impeach him because some moron created a website.
Where do you think the moron got these names and details? Try and use Occam's Razor here (ie the simplest explanation is probably the real explanation)
