British Politics
Been on holiday for a few weeks, surprised to find no general discussion of British politics so though I'd kick one off.
Economics sure. Climate change is going to reek havoc and cause a lot of extremism. Inequality in general is a big one when it comes both to causing problems and making them staggeringly hard to fix.
The lack of any vision or anyhting to believe in is stagerringly damaging. We offer nothing when people are desperate for something.
Wrong, racists say that OF AMERICA, and that would be racism, because it's overwhelmingly obvious america is great because of immigration and wouldn't exist without it.
But for europe jeez, it's just what happened in history. We reached world-level greatness without immigration.
So, any claim to the contrary would be a lie.
Now does that mean that we don't need ANY immigration today? no it doesn't. But it does mean there isn't any inherent value per se in immigration for europe. There can be cases of specific needs of specific people.
As an english native speaker you also keep forgetting the language problem. The economy now is post-industrial, decent jobs (which means high value chain jobs, ie mostly services) require local language
Economics sure. Climate chnage is going to reek havoc and cause a lot of extremism. Inequality in general is a big one when it comes both to causing problems and making them staggeringly hard to fix.
The lack of any vision or anyhting to believe in is stagerringly damaging. We offer nothing when people are desperate for something.
Lol man, you can believe what you want but if you want to understand why people in cold countries vote right against the green new deal why do you want to project your own preferences on that?
the 20y doesn't give a **** about climate change, he just wants to pay the car less. And he isn't angry at people elsewhere having more money, he is angry at them when they send poor foreigners in his neighborhood and they bring their problems with them, while the rich people gain from it.
These people want the left to stop ruining their lives basically.
Wrong, racists say that OF AMERICA, and that would be racism, because it's overwhelmingly obvious america is great because of immigration and wouldn't exist without it.But for europe jeez, it's just what happened in history. We reached world-level greatness without immigration.So, any claim to the contrary would be a lie.Now does that mean that we don't need ANY immigration tod
The whole argument about who is and who isn't an immigrant is ridiculous when you start going back generations, and we know that from the genetic tests.
the 20y doesn't give a **** about climate change, he just wants to pay the car less. And he isn't angry at people elsewhere having more money, he is angry at them when they send poor foreigners in his neighborhood and they bring their problems with them, while the rich people gain from it.
These people want the left to stop ruining their lives basically.
That's real projection.
The whole argument about who is and who isn't an immigrant is ridiculous when you start going back generations, and we know that from the genetic tests.
because we are all from Adam and Eve?
Lol man, you can believe what you want but if you want to understand why people in cold countries vote right against the green new deal why do you want to project your own preferences on that?the 20y doesn't give a **** about climate change, he just wants to pay the car less. And he isn't angry at people elsewhere having more money, he is angry at them when they send poor forei
I accept you you think they aren't needed. Debating the need for the meaures is unrewarding - we're going to keep pushing them and many people will be angry about it - that we agree on. We on the left could however combine with a better more equal world - one where it's not just sacrifice while others are rich. Somethign worth fighting for.
I accept you you think they aren't needed. Debating the need for the meaures is unrewarding - we're going to keep pushing them and many people will be angry about it - that we agree on. We on the left could however combine with a better more equal world - one where it's not just sacrifice while others are rich. Somethign worth fighting for.
ok so that's why the right will get more votes, and sometimes enough votes to block it. There are a lot of people who don't want to pay a steak 50 euro per kilo
It's election results
Green parties suffered major losses in the EU elections, particularly in France and Germany, hit by growing discontent at the bloc's environmental push and by voters' shifting priorities.
They had notched up their best ever results at the last European Parliament polls five years ago, which were accompanied by mass rallies over climate change.
But the parties appeared to be the biggest losers of this year's election, with projections showing they will be left with just 53 seats in the parliament -- down from a record 72 in 2019.
The German Greens -- part of Chancellor Olaf Scholz's beleaguered ruling coalition -- saw their support slide to just 12 percent compared with 20.5 percent in 2019, according to preliminary results.
France's main Green party, EELV, meanwhile won just five percent of the vote, down from over 13 percent, the results showed.
It's election resultsGreen parties suffered major losses in the EU elections, particularly in France and Germany, hit by growing discontent at the bloc's environmental push and by voters' shifting priorities.They had notched up their best ever results at the last European Parliament polls five years ago, which were accompanied by mass rallies over climate change.But the parties
That's not a clear indication of long term decline in the appeal of green policies - maybe some element of "giving up" in the face of apathy from politicians is at play, maybe some other factors we can't define.
That's not a clear indication of long term decline in the appeal of green policies - maybe some element of "giving up" in the face of apathy from politicians is at play, maybe some other factors we can't define.
turnout was the same overall in EU, if not like 1% higher, so it can't be apathy.
They actually moved toward other parties.
It can be "i still care about the climate but currently i care more about X", that for sure. I don't think someone can actually vote for super radicals in 2019 and then totally change his mind.
I am not claiming green party voters moved to AFD or front national btw. I am claiming they moved to "normal" centerleft parties, and some people on the centerleft/centerright moved to the actual right. It's a shift , for each person a fairly "small" one, but in aggregate it can look like green voters are now AFD voters (i don't agree that's the case tbh).
ok so that's why the right will get more votes, and sometimes enough votes to block it. There are a lot of people who don't want to pay a steak 50 euro per kilo
That's definitely a part of it.
Part of our job on the left/etc is to win this fight. One of m,any fights we are currently losing. Mostly by barely even trying.
turnout was the same overall in EU, if not like 1% higher, so it can't be apathy.They actually moved toward other parties.It can be "i still care about the climate but currently i care more about X", that for sure. I don't think someone can actually vote for super radicals in 2019 and then totally change his mind.I am not claiming green party voters moved to AFD or front nation
I meant apathy in not voting for green parties, not in abstaining. I agree it looks as if they moved to more trad centre-left parties.
Never again the hammer and sickle, bring the jackboots and concentration camps instead?
Any thoughts on why Macron dissolved French parliament? It just screams hubris to me. They have their own little Blair over there, don't they.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-polit...
"Now harder to afford a home under Conservatives, Sunak tells BBC"
lol, he's just trolling the tories now, isn't he.
Any thoughts on why Macron dissolved French parliament? It just screams hubris to me. They have their own little Blair over there, don't they.
He may think that Le Pen will do less well than predicted, or he may think that a government led by a National Rally prime minister under 'co-habitation' will make a complete arse of itself before the next presidential election in 2027.
UK Greens have no interest in climate, the environment, hedgehogs or any of that. It's just gender, Jews and general far-right student wokery, I'm afraid.
I know we are in the UK thread (and sorry for the semi-derail) but we were talking about France and Germany greens being slaughtered in EU elections (vs their surprising results in 2019).
And those are actual ultra green parties. They wanted to ban fossil fuel car sales immediately and they wanted nuclear NOT to count as clean renewable energy (just examples of some of their actual policy proposals)
